How do scammers retract money, while you can’t?Why, in case of a check scam, am I the responsible one and not the bank?“Infinite Banking” or “Be Your Own Bank” via Whole Life Insurance…where to start?How do scammers / money launderers profit from loans to victims?Money transfer scamScammer sent money to my account. What should I do?How to withdraw large sum of money at onceHow safe is my money with BankHow does this money-transfer scam work?Random and anonymous `western union´money transfers into my account, is it a scam?how does this scam workPaying someone to give me money

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How do scammers retract money, while you can’t?


Why, in case of a check scam, am I the responsible one and not the bank?“Infinite Banking” or “Be Your Own Bank” via Whole Life Insurance…where to start?How do scammers / money launderers profit from loans to victims?Money transfer scamScammer sent money to my account. What should I do?How to withdraw large sum of money at onceHow safe is my money with BankHow does this money-transfer scam work?Random and anonymous `western union´money transfers into my account, is it a scam?how does this scam workPaying someone to give me money






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86















I see a lot of question about scams with the same premises:



  1. Someone puts money in your account.


  2. You send money somewhere.


  3. They take their money back, while you lost your money.


I don't know a whole lot about banking and money transfers, but it seems odd to me that they can retract money back while you can't do that.



Can someone explain this?










share|improve this question






























    86















    I see a lot of question about scams with the same premises:



    1. Someone puts money in your account.


    2. You send money somewhere.


    3. They take their money back, while you lost your money.


    I don't know a whole lot about banking and money transfers, but it seems odd to me that they can retract money back while you can't do that.



    Can someone explain this?










    share|improve this question


























      86












      86








      86


      10






      I see a lot of question about scams with the same premises:



      1. Someone puts money in your account.


      2. You send money somewhere.


      3. They take their money back, while you lost your money.


      I don't know a whole lot about banking and money transfers, but it seems odd to me that they can retract money back while you can't do that.



      Can someone explain this?










      share|improve this question
















      I see a lot of question about scams with the same premises:



      1. Someone puts money in your account.


      2. You send money somewhere.


      3. They take their money back, while you lost your money.


      I don't know a whole lot about banking and money transfers, but it seems odd to me that they can retract money back while you can't do that.



      Can someone explain this?







      banking scams






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited yesterday









      Glorfindel

      3451311




      3451311










      asked Mar 27 at 13:38









      darnokdarnok

      513125




      513125




















          5 Answers
          5






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          106














          Here’s what happens:



          When you thought the scammer deposited money in your account, it didn’t really happen. It was essentially fake money. This could happen in a few different ways. It could be that the scammer gave you a bad/fake check, which isn’t discovered until several days after you deposited it. Banks don’t know for sure if checks are good until they send it on to the issuing bank. As a courtesy, your bank will assume it is good as soon as you deposit it and credit your account immediately, but if the check turns out to be bad, they will withdraw that amount back from your account, and if you have already spent that money, the bank will want you to pay it back. There is also an electronic version of this scenario: If you are electronically sent money from an account by mistake or an account that was hacked, this can be reversed.



          On the other side of the scam, when you send money out of your account to the scammer, you are doing so willingly, even if you were tricked into doing so. You went to the bank and withdrew the cash, or you wrote the check, or you initiated the electronic transfer out. Your account was not hijacked; you told the bank what you wanted to do with your account. You can’t normally just change your mind after the fact.



          If the scammer took control of your account electronically and stole the money, or the scammer forged a check without your knowledge, you would generally be able to get your money back from the bank. But if you willingly hand money over to the scammer, you will need to go after the scammer to get your money back.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 38





            Isn't that courtesy from the bank a major security flaw? Surely in an era of high frequency trading it should not take more than some seconds to verify the originating account?

            – gerrit
            Mar 27 at 14:41







          • 26





            @gerrit It depends on how you look at it. Once upon a time, banks used to have waiting periods for checks: when you deposited a check, banks used to wait several days before crediting your account. It wasn’t a popular policy, and of course by doing that you lose out on interest you would have earned on your deposit over those days. I’ve had a bank account my whole life, and I’ve never deposited a bad check; I wouldn’t like it if my bank made me wait for my money.

            – Ben Miller
            Mar 27 at 14:47






          • 9





            @gerrit Instead, it is up to you to determine if the check you have is suspect or not. If you have reason to believe the check might not be good, you can deposit it and wait a week or two before spending the money. That way, if the check turns out to be bad, there is no problem.

            – Ben Miller
            Mar 27 at 14:50






          • 6





            They probably mean exactly what they said. @9ilsdx9rvj0lo Depositing money into someone else's bank account is something that anyone can do. You could go into my bank and tell them that you want to deposit money into my account. They do not care, because there is no reason to stop such a transaction; it doesn't hurt me. My mother actually did this once when she owed me money and we couldn't meet for a while, she just went to my bank and deposited into my account. My employer does it every week. In the scams, the scammer may have your bank number too which makes it easier for them.

            – Aaron
            Mar 27 at 15:44






          • 9





            @gerrit A bank real business is to manage risk. They are also a company that has to please customers else they take their money elsewhere. Balancing the pros of releasing the money immediately and making the client happy with the cons of maybe doing a withdraw to retrieve in the rare case it is a bad check, the bank decided that happy clients give the bank more money than it loses with frauds and angry clients that were charged back.

            – Mindwin
            Mar 27 at 16:13


















          44














          Some payment methods people are able to cancel or the money doesn't fully exist until 'cleared', some not.



          This scam works by sending you money via one that can such as a check, followed by you sending them money back via one that can't, typically Western Union, cash in person or via crypto etc.



          They then cancel the money you got, leaving you out of pocket and with no way to cancel the money you gave away.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 3





            I would assume that, along these lines, that there is a limited time to cancel on cancelable payments. The scammer does so right away, where the mark is reacting which may be to late.

            – Pete B.
            Mar 27 at 13:56






          • 1





            I think this answer is wrong. It seems to be saying that the scammer is sending real checks from a real bank and then paying the bank for a "stop payment". This seems totally unnecessary and highly increase the chances of the scammer being arrested, when a counterfeit check would do the job cheaper and safer.

            – DavidS
            Mar 28 at 23:15











          • @DavidS it's not a matter of whether one specific check is real or forged, but the fact that checks, in general, can be reversed, allowing this opportunity. It doesn't matter whether the check is fake, or a real check that you stop payment on, the effect is the same.

            – barbecue
            Mar 29 at 21:07


















          13















          How do scammers [do something...], while you can’t?




          A major factor here is the willingness to commit a crime, particularly fraud. For example, you can reverse a credit card charge by calling the customer service number and complaining that a purchase was unauthorized or fraudulent. Normal people do not lie about this because there are real consequences.



          In fact almost all bank based consumer electronic transfers can be reversed long after the fact in case of fraud. Some electronic transfers like Western Union or Bitcoin can NEVER be reversed. Withdrawing the money as cash is another non-reversible action. Paying money from a reversible transaction using a never reversible one is a common theme in scams.



          Many fraud schemes are based on transactions where a bank will show money in a consumer's account before the bank actually receives the funds from the transfer. This is sort of a loan. Checks from another bank, for example, take several days to clear. If the check is fake, the other bank will not honor it and the consumer's bank will take back the money they loaned.






          share|improve this answer


















          • 3





            Well actually, with a controlling share of the Bitcoin network, you could cancel the transaction. But that would be prohibitively expensive.

            – Alexander Kosubek
            Mar 28 at 11:14






          • 2





            Which is why some financial institutions will not wire to/from Western Union.

            – J. Chris Compton
            Mar 28 at 20:28


















          6














          Sometimes the scammer doesn't even need to intentionally cancel the original payment. They might send you a check, which you deposit in your account. Your bank accepts the check and it may even post to your account because the bank assumes that it is legitimate (and it does appear that way at first). A couple days/weeks later the bank finds out that the account tied to the check does not exist or doesn't have any money in it, and they reverse the deposit.



          Other times, the scammer requires you (the scammee?) to send them payment via a non-reversible method, like Philip stated.






          share|improve this answer

























          • I would say that the scammer never needs to cancel the original payment, because the scammer never actually sent any real money.

            – Hutch
            Mar 28 at 22:44






          • 1





            The term for "scammee" is mark.

            – Volker Siegel
            Mar 29 at 7:07











          • @Hutch it doesn't matter. A scammer could send a real check and stop payment on it, and the effect would be the same. They're still a scammer, just a dumb one.

            – barbecue
            Mar 29 at 21:10


















          2














          The only entity who can rewert done money transfer is the bank itself, and they will do it only if there was something very wrong with the transfer itself, for example transfer resulted from system failure or the money came from criminal activity (from the account, that was closed by the law enforcement).



          However, if you send the money from your bank account that is not blacklisted and contains legitimate money, so there's no reason to cancel that transfer.



          Well, if your account was used to wash money, it might be blacklisted then, but you'd loose your money anyway, and the money sent to another account was most likely taken out.



          Notice that it's a money washing schema. Criminals can't revert done money transfer on their own, and they have no interest in having their accounts confiscated by the police, so reverting the transfer is only a side effect (and most likely, only the beginning of your transfer).






          share|improve this answer





















            protected by JoeTaxpayer Mar 27 at 15:18



            Thank you for your interest in this question.
            Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).



            Would you like to answer one of these unanswered questions instead?














            5 Answers
            5






            active

            oldest

            votes








            5 Answers
            5






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            106














            Here’s what happens:



            When you thought the scammer deposited money in your account, it didn’t really happen. It was essentially fake money. This could happen in a few different ways. It could be that the scammer gave you a bad/fake check, which isn’t discovered until several days after you deposited it. Banks don’t know for sure if checks are good until they send it on to the issuing bank. As a courtesy, your bank will assume it is good as soon as you deposit it and credit your account immediately, but if the check turns out to be bad, they will withdraw that amount back from your account, and if you have already spent that money, the bank will want you to pay it back. There is also an electronic version of this scenario: If you are electronically sent money from an account by mistake or an account that was hacked, this can be reversed.



            On the other side of the scam, when you send money out of your account to the scammer, you are doing so willingly, even if you were tricked into doing so. You went to the bank and withdrew the cash, or you wrote the check, or you initiated the electronic transfer out. Your account was not hijacked; you told the bank what you wanted to do with your account. You can’t normally just change your mind after the fact.



            If the scammer took control of your account electronically and stole the money, or the scammer forged a check without your knowledge, you would generally be able to get your money back from the bank. But if you willingly hand money over to the scammer, you will need to go after the scammer to get your money back.






            share|improve this answer




















            • 38





              Isn't that courtesy from the bank a major security flaw? Surely in an era of high frequency trading it should not take more than some seconds to verify the originating account?

              – gerrit
              Mar 27 at 14:41







            • 26





              @gerrit It depends on how you look at it. Once upon a time, banks used to have waiting periods for checks: when you deposited a check, banks used to wait several days before crediting your account. It wasn’t a popular policy, and of course by doing that you lose out on interest you would have earned on your deposit over those days. I’ve had a bank account my whole life, and I’ve never deposited a bad check; I wouldn’t like it if my bank made me wait for my money.

              – Ben Miller
              Mar 27 at 14:47






            • 9





              @gerrit Instead, it is up to you to determine if the check you have is suspect or not. If you have reason to believe the check might not be good, you can deposit it and wait a week or two before spending the money. That way, if the check turns out to be bad, there is no problem.

              – Ben Miller
              Mar 27 at 14:50






            • 6





              They probably mean exactly what they said. @9ilsdx9rvj0lo Depositing money into someone else's bank account is something that anyone can do. You could go into my bank and tell them that you want to deposit money into my account. They do not care, because there is no reason to stop such a transaction; it doesn't hurt me. My mother actually did this once when she owed me money and we couldn't meet for a while, she just went to my bank and deposited into my account. My employer does it every week. In the scams, the scammer may have your bank number too which makes it easier for them.

              – Aaron
              Mar 27 at 15:44






            • 9





              @gerrit A bank real business is to manage risk. They are also a company that has to please customers else they take their money elsewhere. Balancing the pros of releasing the money immediately and making the client happy with the cons of maybe doing a withdraw to retrieve in the rare case it is a bad check, the bank decided that happy clients give the bank more money than it loses with frauds and angry clients that were charged back.

              – Mindwin
              Mar 27 at 16:13















            106














            Here’s what happens:



            When you thought the scammer deposited money in your account, it didn’t really happen. It was essentially fake money. This could happen in a few different ways. It could be that the scammer gave you a bad/fake check, which isn’t discovered until several days after you deposited it. Banks don’t know for sure if checks are good until they send it on to the issuing bank. As a courtesy, your bank will assume it is good as soon as you deposit it and credit your account immediately, but if the check turns out to be bad, they will withdraw that amount back from your account, and if you have already spent that money, the bank will want you to pay it back. There is also an electronic version of this scenario: If you are electronically sent money from an account by mistake or an account that was hacked, this can be reversed.



            On the other side of the scam, when you send money out of your account to the scammer, you are doing so willingly, even if you were tricked into doing so. You went to the bank and withdrew the cash, or you wrote the check, or you initiated the electronic transfer out. Your account was not hijacked; you told the bank what you wanted to do with your account. You can’t normally just change your mind after the fact.



            If the scammer took control of your account electronically and stole the money, or the scammer forged a check without your knowledge, you would generally be able to get your money back from the bank. But if you willingly hand money over to the scammer, you will need to go after the scammer to get your money back.






            share|improve this answer




















            • 38





              Isn't that courtesy from the bank a major security flaw? Surely in an era of high frequency trading it should not take more than some seconds to verify the originating account?

              – gerrit
              Mar 27 at 14:41







            • 26





              @gerrit It depends on how you look at it. Once upon a time, banks used to have waiting periods for checks: when you deposited a check, banks used to wait several days before crediting your account. It wasn’t a popular policy, and of course by doing that you lose out on interest you would have earned on your deposit over those days. I’ve had a bank account my whole life, and I’ve never deposited a bad check; I wouldn’t like it if my bank made me wait for my money.

              – Ben Miller
              Mar 27 at 14:47






            • 9





              @gerrit Instead, it is up to you to determine if the check you have is suspect or not. If you have reason to believe the check might not be good, you can deposit it and wait a week or two before spending the money. That way, if the check turns out to be bad, there is no problem.

              – Ben Miller
              Mar 27 at 14:50






            • 6





              They probably mean exactly what they said. @9ilsdx9rvj0lo Depositing money into someone else's bank account is something that anyone can do. You could go into my bank and tell them that you want to deposit money into my account. They do not care, because there is no reason to stop such a transaction; it doesn't hurt me. My mother actually did this once when she owed me money and we couldn't meet for a while, she just went to my bank and deposited into my account. My employer does it every week. In the scams, the scammer may have your bank number too which makes it easier for them.

              – Aaron
              Mar 27 at 15:44






            • 9





              @gerrit A bank real business is to manage risk. They are also a company that has to please customers else they take their money elsewhere. Balancing the pros of releasing the money immediately and making the client happy with the cons of maybe doing a withdraw to retrieve in the rare case it is a bad check, the bank decided that happy clients give the bank more money than it loses with frauds and angry clients that were charged back.

              – Mindwin
              Mar 27 at 16:13













            106












            106








            106







            Here’s what happens:



            When you thought the scammer deposited money in your account, it didn’t really happen. It was essentially fake money. This could happen in a few different ways. It could be that the scammer gave you a bad/fake check, which isn’t discovered until several days after you deposited it. Banks don’t know for sure if checks are good until they send it on to the issuing bank. As a courtesy, your bank will assume it is good as soon as you deposit it and credit your account immediately, but if the check turns out to be bad, they will withdraw that amount back from your account, and if you have already spent that money, the bank will want you to pay it back. There is also an electronic version of this scenario: If you are electronically sent money from an account by mistake or an account that was hacked, this can be reversed.



            On the other side of the scam, when you send money out of your account to the scammer, you are doing so willingly, even if you were tricked into doing so. You went to the bank and withdrew the cash, or you wrote the check, or you initiated the electronic transfer out. Your account was not hijacked; you told the bank what you wanted to do with your account. You can’t normally just change your mind after the fact.



            If the scammer took control of your account electronically and stole the money, or the scammer forged a check without your knowledge, you would generally be able to get your money back from the bank. But if you willingly hand money over to the scammer, you will need to go after the scammer to get your money back.






            share|improve this answer















            Here’s what happens:



            When you thought the scammer deposited money in your account, it didn’t really happen. It was essentially fake money. This could happen in a few different ways. It could be that the scammer gave you a bad/fake check, which isn’t discovered until several days after you deposited it. Banks don’t know for sure if checks are good until they send it on to the issuing bank. As a courtesy, your bank will assume it is good as soon as you deposit it and credit your account immediately, but if the check turns out to be bad, they will withdraw that amount back from your account, and if you have already spent that money, the bank will want you to pay it back. There is also an electronic version of this scenario: If you are electronically sent money from an account by mistake or an account that was hacked, this can be reversed.



            On the other side of the scam, when you send money out of your account to the scammer, you are doing so willingly, even if you were tricked into doing so. You went to the bank and withdrew the cash, or you wrote the check, or you initiated the electronic transfer out. Your account was not hijacked; you told the bank what you wanted to do with your account. You can’t normally just change your mind after the fact.



            If the scammer took control of your account electronically and stole the money, or the scammer forged a check without your knowledge, you would generally be able to get your money back from the bank. But if you willingly hand money over to the scammer, you will need to go after the scammer to get your money back.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited Mar 27 at 14:06

























            answered Mar 27 at 13:54









            Ben MillerBen Miller

            82.2k21225294




            82.2k21225294







            • 38





              Isn't that courtesy from the bank a major security flaw? Surely in an era of high frequency trading it should not take more than some seconds to verify the originating account?

              – gerrit
              Mar 27 at 14:41







            • 26





              @gerrit It depends on how you look at it. Once upon a time, banks used to have waiting periods for checks: when you deposited a check, banks used to wait several days before crediting your account. It wasn’t a popular policy, and of course by doing that you lose out on interest you would have earned on your deposit over those days. I’ve had a bank account my whole life, and I’ve never deposited a bad check; I wouldn’t like it if my bank made me wait for my money.

              – Ben Miller
              Mar 27 at 14:47






            • 9





              @gerrit Instead, it is up to you to determine if the check you have is suspect or not. If you have reason to believe the check might not be good, you can deposit it and wait a week or two before spending the money. That way, if the check turns out to be bad, there is no problem.

              – Ben Miller
              Mar 27 at 14:50






            • 6





              They probably mean exactly what they said. @9ilsdx9rvj0lo Depositing money into someone else's bank account is something that anyone can do. You could go into my bank and tell them that you want to deposit money into my account. They do not care, because there is no reason to stop such a transaction; it doesn't hurt me. My mother actually did this once when she owed me money and we couldn't meet for a while, she just went to my bank and deposited into my account. My employer does it every week. In the scams, the scammer may have your bank number too which makes it easier for them.

              – Aaron
              Mar 27 at 15:44






            • 9





              @gerrit A bank real business is to manage risk. They are also a company that has to please customers else they take their money elsewhere. Balancing the pros of releasing the money immediately and making the client happy with the cons of maybe doing a withdraw to retrieve in the rare case it is a bad check, the bank decided that happy clients give the bank more money than it loses with frauds and angry clients that were charged back.

              – Mindwin
              Mar 27 at 16:13












            • 38





              Isn't that courtesy from the bank a major security flaw? Surely in an era of high frequency trading it should not take more than some seconds to verify the originating account?

              – gerrit
              Mar 27 at 14:41







            • 26





              @gerrit It depends on how you look at it. Once upon a time, banks used to have waiting periods for checks: when you deposited a check, banks used to wait several days before crediting your account. It wasn’t a popular policy, and of course by doing that you lose out on interest you would have earned on your deposit over those days. I’ve had a bank account my whole life, and I’ve never deposited a bad check; I wouldn’t like it if my bank made me wait for my money.

              – Ben Miller
              Mar 27 at 14:47






            • 9





              @gerrit Instead, it is up to you to determine if the check you have is suspect or not. If you have reason to believe the check might not be good, you can deposit it and wait a week or two before spending the money. That way, if the check turns out to be bad, there is no problem.

              – Ben Miller
              Mar 27 at 14:50






            • 6





              They probably mean exactly what they said. @9ilsdx9rvj0lo Depositing money into someone else's bank account is something that anyone can do. You could go into my bank and tell them that you want to deposit money into my account. They do not care, because there is no reason to stop such a transaction; it doesn't hurt me. My mother actually did this once when she owed me money and we couldn't meet for a while, she just went to my bank and deposited into my account. My employer does it every week. In the scams, the scammer may have your bank number too which makes it easier for them.

              – Aaron
              Mar 27 at 15:44






            • 9





              @gerrit A bank real business is to manage risk. They are also a company that has to please customers else they take their money elsewhere. Balancing the pros of releasing the money immediately and making the client happy with the cons of maybe doing a withdraw to retrieve in the rare case it is a bad check, the bank decided that happy clients give the bank more money than it loses with frauds and angry clients that were charged back.

              – Mindwin
              Mar 27 at 16:13







            38




            38





            Isn't that courtesy from the bank a major security flaw? Surely in an era of high frequency trading it should not take more than some seconds to verify the originating account?

            – gerrit
            Mar 27 at 14:41






            Isn't that courtesy from the bank a major security flaw? Surely in an era of high frequency trading it should not take more than some seconds to verify the originating account?

            – gerrit
            Mar 27 at 14:41





            26




            26





            @gerrit It depends on how you look at it. Once upon a time, banks used to have waiting periods for checks: when you deposited a check, banks used to wait several days before crediting your account. It wasn’t a popular policy, and of course by doing that you lose out on interest you would have earned on your deposit over those days. I’ve had a bank account my whole life, and I’ve never deposited a bad check; I wouldn’t like it if my bank made me wait for my money.

            – Ben Miller
            Mar 27 at 14:47





            @gerrit It depends on how you look at it. Once upon a time, banks used to have waiting periods for checks: when you deposited a check, banks used to wait several days before crediting your account. It wasn’t a popular policy, and of course by doing that you lose out on interest you would have earned on your deposit over those days. I’ve had a bank account my whole life, and I’ve never deposited a bad check; I wouldn’t like it if my bank made me wait for my money.

            – Ben Miller
            Mar 27 at 14:47




            9




            9





            @gerrit Instead, it is up to you to determine if the check you have is suspect or not. If you have reason to believe the check might not be good, you can deposit it and wait a week or two before spending the money. That way, if the check turns out to be bad, there is no problem.

            – Ben Miller
            Mar 27 at 14:50





            @gerrit Instead, it is up to you to determine if the check you have is suspect or not. If you have reason to believe the check might not be good, you can deposit it and wait a week or two before spending the money. That way, if the check turns out to be bad, there is no problem.

            – Ben Miller
            Mar 27 at 14:50




            6




            6





            They probably mean exactly what they said. @9ilsdx9rvj0lo Depositing money into someone else's bank account is something that anyone can do. You could go into my bank and tell them that you want to deposit money into my account. They do not care, because there is no reason to stop such a transaction; it doesn't hurt me. My mother actually did this once when she owed me money and we couldn't meet for a while, she just went to my bank and deposited into my account. My employer does it every week. In the scams, the scammer may have your bank number too which makes it easier for them.

            – Aaron
            Mar 27 at 15:44





            They probably mean exactly what they said. @9ilsdx9rvj0lo Depositing money into someone else's bank account is something that anyone can do. You could go into my bank and tell them that you want to deposit money into my account. They do not care, because there is no reason to stop such a transaction; it doesn't hurt me. My mother actually did this once when she owed me money and we couldn't meet for a while, she just went to my bank and deposited into my account. My employer does it every week. In the scams, the scammer may have your bank number too which makes it easier for them.

            – Aaron
            Mar 27 at 15:44




            9




            9





            @gerrit A bank real business is to manage risk. They are also a company that has to please customers else they take their money elsewhere. Balancing the pros of releasing the money immediately and making the client happy with the cons of maybe doing a withdraw to retrieve in the rare case it is a bad check, the bank decided that happy clients give the bank more money than it loses with frauds and angry clients that were charged back.

            – Mindwin
            Mar 27 at 16:13





            @gerrit A bank real business is to manage risk. They are also a company that has to please customers else they take their money elsewhere. Balancing the pros of releasing the money immediately and making the client happy with the cons of maybe doing a withdraw to retrieve in the rare case it is a bad check, the bank decided that happy clients give the bank more money than it loses with frauds and angry clients that were charged back.

            – Mindwin
            Mar 27 at 16:13













            44














            Some payment methods people are able to cancel or the money doesn't fully exist until 'cleared', some not.



            This scam works by sending you money via one that can such as a check, followed by you sending them money back via one that can't, typically Western Union, cash in person or via crypto etc.



            They then cancel the money you got, leaving you out of pocket and with no way to cancel the money you gave away.






            share|improve this answer




















            • 3





              I would assume that, along these lines, that there is a limited time to cancel on cancelable payments. The scammer does so right away, where the mark is reacting which may be to late.

              – Pete B.
              Mar 27 at 13:56






            • 1





              I think this answer is wrong. It seems to be saying that the scammer is sending real checks from a real bank and then paying the bank for a "stop payment". This seems totally unnecessary and highly increase the chances of the scammer being arrested, when a counterfeit check would do the job cheaper and safer.

              – DavidS
              Mar 28 at 23:15











            • @DavidS it's not a matter of whether one specific check is real or forged, but the fact that checks, in general, can be reversed, allowing this opportunity. It doesn't matter whether the check is fake, or a real check that you stop payment on, the effect is the same.

              – barbecue
              Mar 29 at 21:07















            44














            Some payment methods people are able to cancel or the money doesn't fully exist until 'cleared', some not.



            This scam works by sending you money via one that can such as a check, followed by you sending them money back via one that can't, typically Western Union, cash in person or via crypto etc.



            They then cancel the money you got, leaving you out of pocket and with no way to cancel the money you gave away.






            share|improve this answer




















            • 3





              I would assume that, along these lines, that there is a limited time to cancel on cancelable payments. The scammer does so right away, where the mark is reacting which may be to late.

              – Pete B.
              Mar 27 at 13:56






            • 1





              I think this answer is wrong. It seems to be saying that the scammer is sending real checks from a real bank and then paying the bank for a "stop payment". This seems totally unnecessary and highly increase the chances of the scammer being arrested, when a counterfeit check would do the job cheaper and safer.

              – DavidS
              Mar 28 at 23:15











            • @DavidS it's not a matter of whether one specific check is real or forged, but the fact that checks, in general, can be reversed, allowing this opportunity. It doesn't matter whether the check is fake, or a real check that you stop payment on, the effect is the same.

              – barbecue
              Mar 29 at 21:07













            44












            44








            44







            Some payment methods people are able to cancel or the money doesn't fully exist until 'cleared', some not.



            This scam works by sending you money via one that can such as a check, followed by you sending them money back via one that can't, typically Western Union, cash in person or via crypto etc.



            They then cancel the money you got, leaving you out of pocket and with no way to cancel the money you gave away.






            share|improve this answer















            Some payment methods people are able to cancel or the money doesn't fully exist until 'cleared', some not.



            This scam works by sending you money via one that can such as a check, followed by you sending them money back via one that can't, typically Western Union, cash in person or via crypto etc.



            They then cancel the money you got, leaving you out of pocket and with no way to cancel the money you gave away.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited Mar 29 at 9:26

























            answered Mar 27 at 13:41









            PhilipPhilip

            2,568614




            2,568614







            • 3





              I would assume that, along these lines, that there is a limited time to cancel on cancelable payments. The scammer does so right away, where the mark is reacting which may be to late.

              – Pete B.
              Mar 27 at 13:56






            • 1





              I think this answer is wrong. It seems to be saying that the scammer is sending real checks from a real bank and then paying the bank for a "stop payment". This seems totally unnecessary and highly increase the chances of the scammer being arrested, when a counterfeit check would do the job cheaper and safer.

              – DavidS
              Mar 28 at 23:15











            • @DavidS it's not a matter of whether one specific check is real or forged, but the fact that checks, in general, can be reversed, allowing this opportunity. It doesn't matter whether the check is fake, or a real check that you stop payment on, the effect is the same.

              – barbecue
              Mar 29 at 21:07












            • 3





              I would assume that, along these lines, that there is a limited time to cancel on cancelable payments. The scammer does so right away, where the mark is reacting which may be to late.

              – Pete B.
              Mar 27 at 13:56






            • 1





              I think this answer is wrong. It seems to be saying that the scammer is sending real checks from a real bank and then paying the bank for a "stop payment". This seems totally unnecessary and highly increase the chances of the scammer being arrested, when a counterfeit check would do the job cheaper and safer.

              – DavidS
              Mar 28 at 23:15











            • @DavidS it's not a matter of whether one specific check is real or forged, but the fact that checks, in general, can be reversed, allowing this opportunity. It doesn't matter whether the check is fake, or a real check that you stop payment on, the effect is the same.

              – barbecue
              Mar 29 at 21:07







            3




            3





            I would assume that, along these lines, that there is a limited time to cancel on cancelable payments. The scammer does so right away, where the mark is reacting which may be to late.

            – Pete B.
            Mar 27 at 13:56





            I would assume that, along these lines, that there is a limited time to cancel on cancelable payments. The scammer does so right away, where the mark is reacting which may be to late.

            – Pete B.
            Mar 27 at 13:56




            1




            1





            I think this answer is wrong. It seems to be saying that the scammer is sending real checks from a real bank and then paying the bank for a "stop payment". This seems totally unnecessary and highly increase the chances of the scammer being arrested, when a counterfeit check would do the job cheaper and safer.

            – DavidS
            Mar 28 at 23:15





            I think this answer is wrong. It seems to be saying that the scammer is sending real checks from a real bank and then paying the bank for a "stop payment". This seems totally unnecessary and highly increase the chances of the scammer being arrested, when a counterfeit check would do the job cheaper and safer.

            – DavidS
            Mar 28 at 23:15













            @DavidS it's not a matter of whether one specific check is real or forged, but the fact that checks, in general, can be reversed, allowing this opportunity. It doesn't matter whether the check is fake, or a real check that you stop payment on, the effect is the same.

            – barbecue
            Mar 29 at 21:07





            @DavidS it's not a matter of whether one specific check is real or forged, but the fact that checks, in general, can be reversed, allowing this opportunity. It doesn't matter whether the check is fake, or a real check that you stop payment on, the effect is the same.

            – barbecue
            Mar 29 at 21:07











            13















            How do scammers [do something...], while you can’t?




            A major factor here is the willingness to commit a crime, particularly fraud. For example, you can reverse a credit card charge by calling the customer service number and complaining that a purchase was unauthorized or fraudulent. Normal people do not lie about this because there are real consequences.



            In fact almost all bank based consumer electronic transfers can be reversed long after the fact in case of fraud. Some electronic transfers like Western Union or Bitcoin can NEVER be reversed. Withdrawing the money as cash is another non-reversible action. Paying money from a reversible transaction using a never reversible one is a common theme in scams.



            Many fraud schemes are based on transactions where a bank will show money in a consumer's account before the bank actually receives the funds from the transfer. This is sort of a loan. Checks from another bank, for example, take several days to clear. If the check is fake, the other bank will not honor it and the consumer's bank will take back the money they loaned.






            share|improve this answer


















            • 3





              Well actually, with a controlling share of the Bitcoin network, you could cancel the transaction. But that would be prohibitively expensive.

              – Alexander Kosubek
              Mar 28 at 11:14






            • 2





              Which is why some financial institutions will not wire to/from Western Union.

              – J. Chris Compton
              Mar 28 at 20:28















            13















            How do scammers [do something...], while you can’t?




            A major factor here is the willingness to commit a crime, particularly fraud. For example, you can reverse a credit card charge by calling the customer service number and complaining that a purchase was unauthorized or fraudulent. Normal people do not lie about this because there are real consequences.



            In fact almost all bank based consumer electronic transfers can be reversed long after the fact in case of fraud. Some electronic transfers like Western Union or Bitcoin can NEVER be reversed. Withdrawing the money as cash is another non-reversible action. Paying money from a reversible transaction using a never reversible one is a common theme in scams.



            Many fraud schemes are based on transactions where a bank will show money in a consumer's account before the bank actually receives the funds from the transfer. This is sort of a loan. Checks from another bank, for example, take several days to clear. If the check is fake, the other bank will not honor it and the consumer's bank will take back the money they loaned.






            share|improve this answer


















            • 3





              Well actually, with a controlling share of the Bitcoin network, you could cancel the transaction. But that would be prohibitively expensive.

              – Alexander Kosubek
              Mar 28 at 11:14






            • 2





              Which is why some financial institutions will not wire to/from Western Union.

              – J. Chris Compton
              Mar 28 at 20:28













            13












            13








            13








            How do scammers [do something...], while you can’t?




            A major factor here is the willingness to commit a crime, particularly fraud. For example, you can reverse a credit card charge by calling the customer service number and complaining that a purchase was unauthorized or fraudulent. Normal people do not lie about this because there are real consequences.



            In fact almost all bank based consumer electronic transfers can be reversed long after the fact in case of fraud. Some electronic transfers like Western Union or Bitcoin can NEVER be reversed. Withdrawing the money as cash is another non-reversible action. Paying money from a reversible transaction using a never reversible one is a common theme in scams.



            Many fraud schemes are based on transactions where a bank will show money in a consumer's account before the bank actually receives the funds from the transfer. This is sort of a loan. Checks from another bank, for example, take several days to clear. If the check is fake, the other bank will not honor it and the consumer's bank will take back the money they loaned.






            share|improve this answer














            How do scammers [do something...], while you can’t?




            A major factor here is the willingness to commit a crime, particularly fraud. For example, you can reverse a credit card charge by calling the customer service number and complaining that a purchase was unauthorized or fraudulent. Normal people do not lie about this because there are real consequences.



            In fact almost all bank based consumer electronic transfers can be reversed long after the fact in case of fraud. Some electronic transfers like Western Union or Bitcoin can NEVER be reversed. Withdrawing the money as cash is another non-reversible action. Paying money from a reversible transaction using a never reversible one is a common theme in scams.



            Many fraud schemes are based on transactions where a bank will show money in a consumer's account before the bank actually receives the funds from the transfer. This is sort of a loan. Checks from another bank, for example, take several days to clear. If the check is fake, the other bank will not honor it and the consumer's bank will take back the money they loaned.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Mar 27 at 23:36









            trognanderstrognanders

            68347




            68347







            • 3





              Well actually, with a controlling share of the Bitcoin network, you could cancel the transaction. But that would be prohibitively expensive.

              – Alexander Kosubek
              Mar 28 at 11:14






            • 2





              Which is why some financial institutions will not wire to/from Western Union.

              – J. Chris Compton
              Mar 28 at 20:28












            • 3





              Well actually, with a controlling share of the Bitcoin network, you could cancel the transaction. But that would be prohibitively expensive.

              – Alexander Kosubek
              Mar 28 at 11:14






            • 2





              Which is why some financial institutions will not wire to/from Western Union.

              – J. Chris Compton
              Mar 28 at 20:28







            3




            3





            Well actually, with a controlling share of the Bitcoin network, you could cancel the transaction. But that would be prohibitively expensive.

            – Alexander Kosubek
            Mar 28 at 11:14





            Well actually, with a controlling share of the Bitcoin network, you could cancel the transaction. But that would be prohibitively expensive.

            – Alexander Kosubek
            Mar 28 at 11:14




            2




            2





            Which is why some financial institutions will not wire to/from Western Union.

            – J. Chris Compton
            Mar 28 at 20:28





            Which is why some financial institutions will not wire to/from Western Union.

            – J. Chris Compton
            Mar 28 at 20:28











            6














            Sometimes the scammer doesn't even need to intentionally cancel the original payment. They might send you a check, which you deposit in your account. Your bank accepts the check and it may even post to your account because the bank assumes that it is legitimate (and it does appear that way at first). A couple days/weeks later the bank finds out that the account tied to the check does not exist or doesn't have any money in it, and they reverse the deposit.



            Other times, the scammer requires you (the scammee?) to send them payment via a non-reversible method, like Philip stated.






            share|improve this answer

























            • I would say that the scammer never needs to cancel the original payment, because the scammer never actually sent any real money.

              – Hutch
              Mar 28 at 22:44






            • 1





              The term for "scammee" is mark.

              – Volker Siegel
              Mar 29 at 7:07











            • @Hutch it doesn't matter. A scammer could send a real check and stop payment on it, and the effect would be the same. They're still a scammer, just a dumb one.

              – barbecue
              Mar 29 at 21:10















            6














            Sometimes the scammer doesn't even need to intentionally cancel the original payment. They might send you a check, which you deposit in your account. Your bank accepts the check and it may even post to your account because the bank assumes that it is legitimate (and it does appear that way at first). A couple days/weeks later the bank finds out that the account tied to the check does not exist or doesn't have any money in it, and they reverse the deposit.



            Other times, the scammer requires you (the scammee?) to send them payment via a non-reversible method, like Philip stated.






            share|improve this answer

























            • I would say that the scammer never needs to cancel the original payment, because the scammer never actually sent any real money.

              – Hutch
              Mar 28 at 22:44






            • 1





              The term for "scammee" is mark.

              – Volker Siegel
              Mar 29 at 7:07











            • @Hutch it doesn't matter. A scammer could send a real check and stop payment on it, and the effect would be the same. They're still a scammer, just a dumb one.

              – barbecue
              Mar 29 at 21:10













            6












            6








            6







            Sometimes the scammer doesn't even need to intentionally cancel the original payment. They might send you a check, which you deposit in your account. Your bank accepts the check and it may even post to your account because the bank assumes that it is legitimate (and it does appear that way at first). A couple days/weeks later the bank finds out that the account tied to the check does not exist or doesn't have any money in it, and they reverse the deposit.



            Other times, the scammer requires you (the scammee?) to send them payment via a non-reversible method, like Philip stated.






            share|improve this answer















            Sometimes the scammer doesn't even need to intentionally cancel the original payment. They might send you a check, which you deposit in your account. Your bank accepts the check and it may even post to your account because the bank assumes that it is legitimate (and it does appear that way at first). A couple days/weeks later the bank finds out that the account tied to the check does not exist or doesn't have any money in it, and they reverse the deposit.



            Other times, the scammer requires you (the scammee?) to send them payment via a non-reversible method, like Philip stated.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited Mar 27 at 15:50









            yoozer8

            2,23341123




            2,23341123










            answered Mar 27 at 13:50









            NosjackNosjack

            74517




            74517












            • I would say that the scammer never needs to cancel the original payment, because the scammer never actually sent any real money.

              – Hutch
              Mar 28 at 22:44






            • 1





              The term for "scammee" is mark.

              – Volker Siegel
              Mar 29 at 7:07











            • @Hutch it doesn't matter. A scammer could send a real check and stop payment on it, and the effect would be the same. They're still a scammer, just a dumb one.

              – barbecue
              Mar 29 at 21:10

















            • I would say that the scammer never needs to cancel the original payment, because the scammer never actually sent any real money.

              – Hutch
              Mar 28 at 22:44






            • 1





              The term for "scammee" is mark.

              – Volker Siegel
              Mar 29 at 7:07











            • @Hutch it doesn't matter. A scammer could send a real check and stop payment on it, and the effect would be the same. They're still a scammer, just a dumb one.

              – barbecue
              Mar 29 at 21:10
















            I would say that the scammer never needs to cancel the original payment, because the scammer never actually sent any real money.

            – Hutch
            Mar 28 at 22:44





            I would say that the scammer never needs to cancel the original payment, because the scammer never actually sent any real money.

            – Hutch
            Mar 28 at 22:44




            1




            1





            The term for "scammee" is mark.

            – Volker Siegel
            Mar 29 at 7:07





            The term for "scammee" is mark.

            – Volker Siegel
            Mar 29 at 7:07













            @Hutch it doesn't matter. A scammer could send a real check and stop payment on it, and the effect would be the same. They're still a scammer, just a dumb one.

            – barbecue
            Mar 29 at 21:10





            @Hutch it doesn't matter. A scammer could send a real check and stop payment on it, and the effect would be the same. They're still a scammer, just a dumb one.

            – barbecue
            Mar 29 at 21:10











            2














            The only entity who can rewert done money transfer is the bank itself, and they will do it only if there was something very wrong with the transfer itself, for example transfer resulted from system failure or the money came from criminal activity (from the account, that was closed by the law enforcement).



            However, if you send the money from your bank account that is not blacklisted and contains legitimate money, so there's no reason to cancel that transfer.



            Well, if your account was used to wash money, it might be blacklisted then, but you'd loose your money anyway, and the money sent to another account was most likely taken out.



            Notice that it's a money washing schema. Criminals can't revert done money transfer on their own, and they have no interest in having their accounts confiscated by the police, so reverting the transfer is only a side effect (and most likely, only the beginning of your transfer).






            share|improve this answer



























              2














              The only entity who can rewert done money transfer is the bank itself, and they will do it only if there was something very wrong with the transfer itself, for example transfer resulted from system failure or the money came from criminal activity (from the account, that was closed by the law enforcement).



              However, if you send the money from your bank account that is not blacklisted and contains legitimate money, so there's no reason to cancel that transfer.



              Well, if your account was used to wash money, it might be blacklisted then, but you'd loose your money anyway, and the money sent to another account was most likely taken out.



              Notice that it's a money washing schema. Criminals can't revert done money transfer on their own, and they have no interest in having their accounts confiscated by the police, so reverting the transfer is only a side effect (and most likely, only the beginning of your transfer).






              share|improve this answer

























                2












                2








                2







                The only entity who can rewert done money transfer is the bank itself, and they will do it only if there was something very wrong with the transfer itself, for example transfer resulted from system failure or the money came from criminal activity (from the account, that was closed by the law enforcement).



                However, if you send the money from your bank account that is not blacklisted and contains legitimate money, so there's no reason to cancel that transfer.



                Well, if your account was used to wash money, it might be blacklisted then, but you'd loose your money anyway, and the money sent to another account was most likely taken out.



                Notice that it's a money washing schema. Criminals can't revert done money transfer on their own, and they have no interest in having their accounts confiscated by the police, so reverting the transfer is only a side effect (and most likely, only the beginning of your transfer).






                share|improve this answer













                The only entity who can rewert done money transfer is the bank itself, and they will do it only if there was something very wrong with the transfer itself, for example transfer resulted from system failure or the money came from criminal activity (from the account, that was closed by the law enforcement).



                However, if you send the money from your bank account that is not blacklisted and contains legitimate money, so there's no reason to cancel that transfer.



                Well, if your account was used to wash money, it might be blacklisted then, but you'd loose your money anyway, and the money sent to another account was most likely taken out.



                Notice that it's a money washing schema. Criminals can't revert done money transfer on their own, and they have no interest in having their accounts confiscated by the police, so reverting the transfer is only a side effect (and most likely, only the beginning of your transfer).







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered Mar 27 at 15:10









                9ilsdx 9rvj 0lo9ilsdx 9rvj 0lo

                1211




                1211















                    protected by JoeTaxpayer Mar 27 at 15:18



                    Thank you for your interest in this question.
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