If a centaur druid Wild Shapes into a Giant Elk, do their Charge features stack? The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InDoes a half-giant druid in Wild Shape retain Powerful Build?Do fey spirits in the form of creatures from the Conjure Animal Spell count towards creatures one has seen for Wild Shape?Can I employ Relentless Endurance while in Wild Shape?Can Wild Shape provide Darkvision to a human Druid?If a Drow Druid uses Wild Shape to turn into a Spider, what is the range of their Darkvision?Does the Giant Elk receive a bonus Hooves attack vs a Prone foe?Would Aspect of the Beast (Night Senses) grant Darkvision to a Druid Wild-Shaped into a form with Low Light Vision?Does it matter for the elephant's Trampling Charge how the target became prone?Can a druid Wild Shape into a Cranium Rat and use Telepathy?Can a Longtooth Shifter druid attack with a bonus action in Wild Shape?

Why not take a picture of a closer black hole?

Are there any other methods to apply to solving simultaneous equations?

Does a dangling wire really electrocute me if I'm standing in water?

Delete all lines which don't have n characters before delimiter

If I score a critical hit on an 18 or higher, what are my chances of getting a critical hit if I roll 3d20?

Is a "Democratic" Oligarchy-Style System Possible?

Why didn't the Event Horizon Telescope team mention Sagittarius A*?

Does the shape of a die affect the probability of a number being rolled?

Resizing object distorts it (Illustrator CC 2018)

FPGA - DIY Programming

What is the motivation for a law requiring 2 parties to consent for recording a conversation

Can a rogue use sneak attack with weapons that have the thrown property even if they are not thrown?

Which Sci-Fi work first showed weapon of galactic-scale mass destruction?

What is the most effective way of iterating a std::vector and why?

What are the motivations for publishing new editions of an existing textbook, beyond new discoveries in a field?

slides for 30min~1hr skype tenure track application interview

How come people say “Would of”?

What do hard-Brexiteers want with respect to the Irish border?

Are there incongruent pythagorean triangles with the same perimeter and same area?

Why was M87 targetted for the Event Horizon Telescope instead of Sagittarius A*?

When should I buy a clipper card after flying to OAK?

Are spiders unable to hurt humans, especially very small spiders?

Apparent duplicates between Haynes service instructions and MOT

What is the meaning of Triage in Cybersec world?



If a centaur druid Wild Shapes into a Giant Elk, do their Charge features stack?



The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InDoes a half-giant druid in Wild Shape retain Powerful Build?Do fey spirits in the form of creatures from the Conjure Animal Spell count towards creatures one has seen for Wild Shape?Can I employ Relentless Endurance while in Wild Shape?Can Wild Shape provide Darkvision to a human Druid?If a Drow Druid uses Wild Shape to turn into a Spider, what is the range of their Darkvision?Does the Giant Elk receive a bonus Hooves attack vs a Prone foe?Would Aspect of the Beast (Night Senses) grant Darkvision to a Druid Wild-Shaped into a form with Low Light Vision?Does it matter for the elephant's Trampling Charge how the target became prone?Can a druid Wild Shape into a Cranium Rat and use Telepathy?Can a Longtooth Shifter druid attack with a bonus action in Wild Shape?



.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








22












$begingroup$


The Centaur player race has a "Charge" feature (GGtR, p. 16): If they move 30 feet, the Centaur can attack against the target with its hooves as a Bonus Action.



The Giant Elk beast has a similar "Charge" feature: If they move 20 feet, the Giant Elk does extra damage and might knock its target Prone.



If a Centaur druid uses Wild Shape to turn into a Giant Elk, can they benefit from both "Charge" features in a single turn?



I'm hoping for a RAW answer.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Merudo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    2 days ago

















22












$begingroup$


The Centaur player race has a "Charge" feature (GGtR, p. 16): If they move 30 feet, the Centaur can attack against the target with its hooves as a Bonus Action.



The Giant Elk beast has a similar "Charge" feature: If they move 20 feet, the Giant Elk does extra damage and might knock its target Prone.



If a Centaur druid uses Wild Shape to turn into a Giant Elk, can they benefit from both "Charge" features in a single turn?



I'm hoping for a RAW answer.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Merudo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    2 days ago













22












22








22


2



$begingroup$


The Centaur player race has a "Charge" feature (GGtR, p. 16): If they move 30 feet, the Centaur can attack against the target with its hooves as a Bonus Action.



The Giant Elk beast has a similar "Charge" feature: If they move 20 feet, the Giant Elk does extra damage and might knock its target Prone.



If a Centaur druid uses Wild Shape to turn into a Giant Elk, can they benefit from both "Charge" features in a single turn?



I'm hoping for a RAW answer.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Merudo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




The Centaur player race has a "Charge" feature (GGtR, p. 16): If they move 30 feet, the Centaur can attack against the target with its hooves as a Bonus Action.



The Giant Elk beast has a similar "Charge" feature: If they move 20 feet, the Giant Elk does extra damage and might knock its target Prone.



If a Centaur druid uses Wild Shape to turn into a Giant Elk, can they benefit from both "Charge" features in a single turn?



I'm hoping for a RAW answer.







dnd-5e druid wild-shape racial-traits charge






share|improve this question









New contributor




Merudo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




Merudo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 days ago









V2Blast

26.3k591161




26.3k591161






New contributor




Merudo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 2 days ago









MerudoMerudo

34312




34312




New contributor




Merudo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Merudo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Merudo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    2 days ago
















  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    2 days ago















$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
$endgroup$
– Someone_Evil
2 days ago




$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
$endgroup$
– Someone_Evil
2 days ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















25












$begingroup$

Yes. Both features are usable.



Physically able



From wild shape:




You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so.




The giant elk has hooves. The centuar racial feature requires hooves. It is reasonable to assume an elk can perform the charge racial feature of the centaur.



Non-overlapping actions.



Both features have a precondition of some amount of movement. Moving the requisite amount makes both features viable.



Centaur's charge provides a bonus action. Giant elk's charge provides an additional effect to a successful ram attack.



The character can use both their movement and bonus action in the same round. These features do not preclude one another.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch I think it's a good question because it's an edge case of, "what happens when you have two features of the same name that do different things altogether?" It's defined for effects and features with the same mechanics, e.g. darkvision 60' and darkvision 120' or fire resistance and non-magical fire resistance.
    $endgroup$
    – GcL
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Technically, it is the same name, so by the DMG errata they would conflict... except that the effect duration cannot overlap. One has a duration of "your standard attack" while the other has a duration of "your bonus action".
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    2 days ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @BenBarden I'm not sure I'd say that those are durations - but this is squirrely enough to either way at this point.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    2 days ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch my point is that, gong by media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/DMG-Errata.pdf, the overlap rule only applies when the durations of the effects overlap. There is an argument to be made that there is no effect duration and therefore it simply doesn't apply at all, but even without that argument, the only things that make sense for "effect durations" don't overlap, and therefore you still don't get a conflict.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    2 days ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Worth noting that if you decide that both features are usable, they can't be used on the same attack: the centaur's Charge allows a bonus-action hoof attack, whereas the elk's Charge feature only applies specifically to the Ram attack, which is explicitly listed as an action. Nothing to stop you from making the Ram, knocking prone, and then getting advantage on your bonus-action hoof attack - in fact, it makes narrative sense too, in that you're knocking them down and then trampling them underfoot. I'd allow it.
    $endgroup$
    – anaximander
    yesterday


















19












$begingroup$

No, you only get the best one



From the Druid's Wild Shape feature:




You retain the benefit of any features from your class,
race, or other source and can use them if the new
form is physically capable of doing so.




Which (as the Elk form also has a charge feature) is quite clearly applicable. Therefore in Elk form the centaur feature is still available. However, from the DMG p. 252 (provided in the errata, thanks NautArch):




Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the “Combining Magical Effects” section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.




The Charge features are included in this and so only the best one is applicable (if it is ambiguous which the best, you choose).



The kind of situation this rule prevents, in addition to the same spell and similar Auras etc., is that if an Elk gains 6 Druid levels and takes the Circle of the Moon (let's not worry how) and Wild Shapes into a Giant Elk it would otherwise have two instances of the same charge feature (admittedly with different DC's). If both of these were to apply the attack in question would deal and extra 4d6 and cause two Strength saving throws against being prone'd.



In the specific example there are two different features (Centaur and Elk charges), but with the same proper name (Charge) and so only one of them should apply.



A character ending up with two copies of the same feature is otherwise avoided by the games rules trough the special rules for multiclassing which would otherwise be the way to obtain those. For example if two of your classes would give you the Extra Attack feature, only the best one applies or of your would gain a feature called Unarmored Defense and you already have one, you simply don't get the new one (even if it uses a different AC calculation). (See PHB p. 162)






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    They do not "affect a target at the same time" though. You could activate them once after the other. So do the Giant Elk's Charge first, then swap the Giant Elk's Charge for the Centaur's Charge. The Centaur's Charge requirements have been fulfilled, so it can be triggered as well.
    $endgroup$
    – Merudo
    2 days ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Merudo they are features you have at the same time, with the same proper name
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    2 days ago






  • 7




    $begingroup$
    Charge is not an affect. It's a racial feature. The passage from Xanathar's is only about effects.
    $endgroup$
    – GcL
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @GcL yes. I was agreeing with you. Class features don't really have durations per se, which supports the argument that the line in Xanathar's was not referring to them.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    2 days ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @GcL The DMG Errata rewords that part to say "Different game features" instead of "effects", and clarifies that "Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items", which I think makes it pretty comprehensive.
    $endgroup$
    – anaximander
    yesterday











Your Answer





StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "122"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);

else
createEditor();

);

function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);



);






Merudo is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f144791%2fif-a-centaur-druid-wild-shapes-into-a-giant-elk-do-their-charge-features-stack%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









25












$begingroup$

Yes. Both features are usable.



Physically able



From wild shape:




You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so.




The giant elk has hooves. The centuar racial feature requires hooves. It is reasonable to assume an elk can perform the charge racial feature of the centaur.



Non-overlapping actions.



Both features have a precondition of some amount of movement. Moving the requisite amount makes both features viable.



Centaur's charge provides a bonus action. Giant elk's charge provides an additional effect to a successful ram attack.



The character can use both their movement and bonus action in the same round. These features do not preclude one another.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch I think it's a good question because it's an edge case of, "what happens when you have two features of the same name that do different things altogether?" It's defined for effects and features with the same mechanics, e.g. darkvision 60' and darkvision 120' or fire resistance and non-magical fire resistance.
    $endgroup$
    – GcL
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Technically, it is the same name, so by the DMG errata they would conflict... except that the effect duration cannot overlap. One has a duration of "your standard attack" while the other has a duration of "your bonus action".
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    2 days ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @BenBarden I'm not sure I'd say that those are durations - but this is squirrely enough to either way at this point.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    2 days ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch my point is that, gong by media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/DMG-Errata.pdf, the overlap rule only applies when the durations of the effects overlap. There is an argument to be made that there is no effect duration and therefore it simply doesn't apply at all, but even without that argument, the only things that make sense for "effect durations" don't overlap, and therefore you still don't get a conflict.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    2 days ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Worth noting that if you decide that both features are usable, they can't be used on the same attack: the centaur's Charge allows a bonus-action hoof attack, whereas the elk's Charge feature only applies specifically to the Ram attack, which is explicitly listed as an action. Nothing to stop you from making the Ram, knocking prone, and then getting advantage on your bonus-action hoof attack - in fact, it makes narrative sense too, in that you're knocking them down and then trampling them underfoot. I'd allow it.
    $endgroup$
    – anaximander
    yesterday















25












$begingroup$

Yes. Both features are usable.



Physically able



From wild shape:




You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so.




The giant elk has hooves. The centuar racial feature requires hooves. It is reasonable to assume an elk can perform the charge racial feature of the centaur.



Non-overlapping actions.



Both features have a precondition of some amount of movement. Moving the requisite amount makes both features viable.



Centaur's charge provides a bonus action. Giant elk's charge provides an additional effect to a successful ram attack.



The character can use both their movement and bonus action in the same round. These features do not preclude one another.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch I think it's a good question because it's an edge case of, "what happens when you have two features of the same name that do different things altogether?" It's defined for effects and features with the same mechanics, e.g. darkvision 60' and darkvision 120' or fire resistance and non-magical fire resistance.
    $endgroup$
    – GcL
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Technically, it is the same name, so by the DMG errata they would conflict... except that the effect duration cannot overlap. One has a duration of "your standard attack" while the other has a duration of "your bonus action".
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    2 days ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @BenBarden I'm not sure I'd say that those are durations - but this is squirrely enough to either way at this point.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    2 days ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch my point is that, gong by media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/DMG-Errata.pdf, the overlap rule only applies when the durations of the effects overlap. There is an argument to be made that there is no effect duration and therefore it simply doesn't apply at all, but even without that argument, the only things that make sense for "effect durations" don't overlap, and therefore you still don't get a conflict.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    2 days ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Worth noting that if you decide that both features are usable, they can't be used on the same attack: the centaur's Charge allows a bonus-action hoof attack, whereas the elk's Charge feature only applies specifically to the Ram attack, which is explicitly listed as an action. Nothing to stop you from making the Ram, knocking prone, and then getting advantage on your bonus-action hoof attack - in fact, it makes narrative sense too, in that you're knocking them down and then trampling them underfoot. I'd allow it.
    $endgroup$
    – anaximander
    yesterday













25












25








25





$begingroup$

Yes. Both features are usable.



Physically able



From wild shape:




You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so.




The giant elk has hooves. The centuar racial feature requires hooves. It is reasonable to assume an elk can perform the charge racial feature of the centaur.



Non-overlapping actions.



Both features have a precondition of some amount of movement. Moving the requisite amount makes both features viable.



Centaur's charge provides a bonus action. Giant elk's charge provides an additional effect to a successful ram attack.



The character can use both their movement and bonus action in the same round. These features do not preclude one another.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Yes. Both features are usable.



Physically able



From wild shape:




You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so.




The giant elk has hooves. The centuar racial feature requires hooves. It is reasonable to assume an elk can perform the charge racial feature of the centaur.



Non-overlapping actions.



Both features have a precondition of some amount of movement. Moving the requisite amount makes both features viable.



Centaur's charge provides a bonus action. Giant elk's charge provides an additional effect to a successful ram attack.



The character can use both their movement and bonus action in the same round. These features do not preclude one another.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited yesterday









Mwr247

2,9891726




2,9891726










answered 2 days ago









GcLGcL

12.9k13885




12.9k13885







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch I think it's a good question because it's an edge case of, "what happens when you have two features of the same name that do different things altogether?" It's defined for effects and features with the same mechanics, e.g. darkvision 60' and darkvision 120' or fire resistance and non-magical fire resistance.
    $endgroup$
    – GcL
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Technically, it is the same name, so by the DMG errata they would conflict... except that the effect duration cannot overlap. One has a duration of "your standard attack" while the other has a duration of "your bonus action".
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    2 days ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @BenBarden I'm not sure I'd say that those are durations - but this is squirrely enough to either way at this point.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    2 days ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch my point is that, gong by media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/DMG-Errata.pdf, the overlap rule only applies when the durations of the effects overlap. There is an argument to be made that there is no effect duration and therefore it simply doesn't apply at all, but even without that argument, the only things that make sense for "effect durations" don't overlap, and therefore you still don't get a conflict.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    2 days ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Worth noting that if you decide that both features are usable, they can't be used on the same attack: the centaur's Charge allows a bonus-action hoof attack, whereas the elk's Charge feature only applies specifically to the Ram attack, which is explicitly listed as an action. Nothing to stop you from making the Ram, knocking prone, and then getting advantage on your bonus-action hoof attack - in fact, it makes narrative sense too, in that you're knocking them down and then trampling them underfoot. I'd allow it.
    $endgroup$
    – anaximander
    yesterday












  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch I think it's a good question because it's an edge case of, "what happens when you have two features of the same name that do different things altogether?" It's defined for effects and features with the same mechanics, e.g. darkvision 60' and darkvision 120' or fire resistance and non-magical fire resistance.
    $endgroup$
    – GcL
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Technically, it is the same name, so by the DMG errata they would conflict... except that the effect duration cannot overlap. One has a duration of "your standard attack" while the other has a duration of "your bonus action".
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    2 days ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @BenBarden I'm not sure I'd say that those are durations - but this is squirrely enough to either way at this point.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    2 days ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch my point is that, gong by media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/DMG-Errata.pdf, the overlap rule only applies when the durations of the effects overlap. There is an argument to be made that there is no effect duration and therefore it simply doesn't apply at all, but even without that argument, the only things that make sense for "effect durations" don't overlap, and therefore you still don't get a conflict.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    2 days ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Worth noting that if you decide that both features are usable, they can't be used on the same attack: the centaur's Charge allows a bonus-action hoof attack, whereas the elk's Charge feature only applies specifically to the Ram attack, which is explicitly listed as an action. Nothing to stop you from making the Ram, knocking prone, and then getting advantage on your bonus-action hoof attack - in fact, it makes narrative sense too, in that you're knocking them down and then trampling them underfoot. I'd allow it.
    $endgroup$
    – anaximander
    yesterday







1




1




$begingroup$
@NautArch I think it's a good question because it's an edge case of, "what happens when you have two features of the same name that do different things altogether?" It's defined for effects and features with the same mechanics, e.g. darkvision 60' and darkvision 120' or fire resistance and non-magical fire resistance.
$endgroup$
– GcL
2 days ago





$begingroup$
@NautArch I think it's a good question because it's an edge case of, "what happens when you have two features of the same name that do different things altogether?" It's defined for effects and features with the same mechanics, e.g. darkvision 60' and darkvision 120' or fire resistance and non-magical fire resistance.
$endgroup$
– GcL
2 days ago





2




2




$begingroup$
Technically, it is the same name, so by the DMG errata they would conflict... except that the effect duration cannot overlap. One has a duration of "your standard attack" while the other has a duration of "your bonus action".
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
2 days ago




$begingroup$
Technically, it is the same name, so by the DMG errata they would conflict... except that the effect duration cannot overlap. One has a duration of "your standard attack" while the other has a duration of "your bonus action".
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
2 days ago




1




1




$begingroup$
@BenBarden I'm not sure I'd say that those are durations - but this is squirrely enough to either way at this point.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 days ago




$begingroup$
@BenBarden I'm not sure I'd say that those are durations - but this is squirrely enough to either way at this point.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 days ago




3




3




$begingroup$
@NautArch my point is that, gong by media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/DMG-Errata.pdf, the overlap rule only applies when the durations of the effects overlap. There is an argument to be made that there is no effect duration and therefore it simply doesn't apply at all, but even without that argument, the only things that make sense for "effect durations" don't overlap, and therefore you still don't get a conflict.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
2 days ago




$begingroup$
@NautArch my point is that, gong by media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/DMG-Errata.pdf, the overlap rule only applies when the durations of the effects overlap. There is an argument to be made that there is no effect duration and therefore it simply doesn't apply at all, but even without that argument, the only things that make sense for "effect durations" don't overlap, and therefore you still don't get a conflict.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
2 days ago




2




2




$begingroup$
Worth noting that if you decide that both features are usable, they can't be used on the same attack: the centaur's Charge allows a bonus-action hoof attack, whereas the elk's Charge feature only applies specifically to the Ram attack, which is explicitly listed as an action. Nothing to stop you from making the Ram, knocking prone, and then getting advantage on your bonus-action hoof attack - in fact, it makes narrative sense too, in that you're knocking them down and then trampling them underfoot. I'd allow it.
$endgroup$
– anaximander
yesterday




$begingroup$
Worth noting that if you decide that both features are usable, they can't be used on the same attack: the centaur's Charge allows a bonus-action hoof attack, whereas the elk's Charge feature only applies specifically to the Ram attack, which is explicitly listed as an action. Nothing to stop you from making the Ram, knocking prone, and then getting advantage on your bonus-action hoof attack - in fact, it makes narrative sense too, in that you're knocking them down and then trampling them underfoot. I'd allow it.
$endgroup$
– anaximander
yesterday













19












$begingroup$

No, you only get the best one



From the Druid's Wild Shape feature:




You retain the benefit of any features from your class,
race, or other source and can use them if the new
form is physically capable of doing so.




Which (as the Elk form also has a charge feature) is quite clearly applicable. Therefore in Elk form the centaur feature is still available. However, from the DMG p. 252 (provided in the errata, thanks NautArch):




Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the “Combining Magical Effects” section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.




The Charge features are included in this and so only the best one is applicable (if it is ambiguous which the best, you choose).



The kind of situation this rule prevents, in addition to the same spell and similar Auras etc., is that if an Elk gains 6 Druid levels and takes the Circle of the Moon (let's not worry how) and Wild Shapes into a Giant Elk it would otherwise have two instances of the same charge feature (admittedly with different DC's). If both of these were to apply the attack in question would deal and extra 4d6 and cause two Strength saving throws against being prone'd.



In the specific example there are two different features (Centaur and Elk charges), but with the same proper name (Charge) and so only one of them should apply.



A character ending up with two copies of the same feature is otherwise avoided by the games rules trough the special rules for multiclassing which would otherwise be the way to obtain those. For example if two of your classes would give you the Extra Attack feature, only the best one applies or of your would gain a feature called Unarmored Defense and you already have one, you simply don't get the new one (even if it uses a different AC calculation). (See PHB p. 162)






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    They do not "affect a target at the same time" though. You could activate them once after the other. So do the Giant Elk's Charge first, then swap the Giant Elk's Charge for the Centaur's Charge. The Centaur's Charge requirements have been fulfilled, so it can be triggered as well.
    $endgroup$
    – Merudo
    2 days ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Merudo they are features you have at the same time, with the same proper name
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    2 days ago






  • 7




    $begingroup$
    Charge is not an affect. It's a racial feature. The passage from Xanathar's is only about effects.
    $endgroup$
    – GcL
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @GcL yes. I was agreeing with you. Class features don't really have durations per se, which supports the argument that the line in Xanathar's was not referring to them.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    2 days ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @GcL The DMG Errata rewords that part to say "Different game features" instead of "effects", and clarifies that "Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items", which I think makes it pretty comprehensive.
    $endgroup$
    – anaximander
    yesterday















19












$begingroup$

No, you only get the best one



From the Druid's Wild Shape feature:




You retain the benefit of any features from your class,
race, or other source and can use them if the new
form is physically capable of doing so.




Which (as the Elk form also has a charge feature) is quite clearly applicable. Therefore in Elk form the centaur feature is still available. However, from the DMG p. 252 (provided in the errata, thanks NautArch):




Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the “Combining Magical Effects” section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.




The Charge features are included in this and so only the best one is applicable (if it is ambiguous which the best, you choose).



The kind of situation this rule prevents, in addition to the same spell and similar Auras etc., is that if an Elk gains 6 Druid levels and takes the Circle of the Moon (let's not worry how) and Wild Shapes into a Giant Elk it would otherwise have two instances of the same charge feature (admittedly with different DC's). If both of these were to apply the attack in question would deal and extra 4d6 and cause two Strength saving throws against being prone'd.



In the specific example there are two different features (Centaur and Elk charges), but with the same proper name (Charge) and so only one of them should apply.



A character ending up with two copies of the same feature is otherwise avoided by the games rules trough the special rules for multiclassing which would otherwise be the way to obtain those. For example if two of your classes would give you the Extra Attack feature, only the best one applies or of your would gain a feature called Unarmored Defense and you already have one, you simply don't get the new one (even if it uses a different AC calculation). (See PHB p. 162)






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    They do not "affect a target at the same time" though. You could activate them once after the other. So do the Giant Elk's Charge first, then swap the Giant Elk's Charge for the Centaur's Charge. The Centaur's Charge requirements have been fulfilled, so it can be triggered as well.
    $endgroup$
    – Merudo
    2 days ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Merudo they are features you have at the same time, with the same proper name
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    2 days ago






  • 7




    $begingroup$
    Charge is not an affect. It's a racial feature. The passage from Xanathar's is only about effects.
    $endgroup$
    – GcL
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @GcL yes. I was agreeing with you. Class features don't really have durations per se, which supports the argument that the line in Xanathar's was not referring to them.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    2 days ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @GcL The DMG Errata rewords that part to say "Different game features" instead of "effects", and clarifies that "Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items", which I think makes it pretty comprehensive.
    $endgroup$
    – anaximander
    yesterday













19












19








19





$begingroup$

No, you only get the best one



From the Druid's Wild Shape feature:




You retain the benefit of any features from your class,
race, or other source and can use them if the new
form is physically capable of doing so.




Which (as the Elk form also has a charge feature) is quite clearly applicable. Therefore in Elk form the centaur feature is still available. However, from the DMG p. 252 (provided in the errata, thanks NautArch):




Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the “Combining Magical Effects” section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.




The Charge features are included in this and so only the best one is applicable (if it is ambiguous which the best, you choose).



The kind of situation this rule prevents, in addition to the same spell and similar Auras etc., is that if an Elk gains 6 Druid levels and takes the Circle of the Moon (let's not worry how) and Wild Shapes into a Giant Elk it would otherwise have two instances of the same charge feature (admittedly with different DC's). If both of these were to apply the attack in question would deal and extra 4d6 and cause two Strength saving throws against being prone'd.



In the specific example there are two different features (Centaur and Elk charges), but with the same proper name (Charge) and so only one of them should apply.



A character ending up with two copies of the same feature is otherwise avoided by the games rules trough the special rules for multiclassing which would otherwise be the way to obtain those. For example if two of your classes would give you the Extra Attack feature, only the best one applies or of your would gain a feature called Unarmored Defense and you already have one, you simply don't get the new one (even if it uses a different AC calculation). (See PHB p. 162)






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



No, you only get the best one



From the Druid's Wild Shape feature:




You retain the benefit of any features from your class,
race, or other source and can use them if the new
form is physically capable of doing so.




Which (as the Elk form also has a charge feature) is quite clearly applicable. Therefore in Elk form the centaur feature is still available. However, from the DMG p. 252 (provided in the errata, thanks NautArch):




Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the “Combining Magical Effects” section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.




The Charge features are included in this and so only the best one is applicable (if it is ambiguous which the best, you choose).



The kind of situation this rule prevents, in addition to the same spell and similar Auras etc., is that if an Elk gains 6 Druid levels and takes the Circle of the Moon (let's not worry how) and Wild Shapes into a Giant Elk it would otherwise have two instances of the same charge feature (admittedly with different DC's). If both of these were to apply the attack in question would deal and extra 4d6 and cause two Strength saving throws against being prone'd.



In the specific example there are two different features (Centaur and Elk charges), but with the same proper name (Charge) and so only one of them should apply.



A character ending up with two copies of the same feature is otherwise avoided by the games rules trough the special rules for multiclassing which would otherwise be the way to obtain those. For example if two of your classes would give you the Extra Attack feature, only the best one applies or of your would gain a feature called Unarmored Defense and you already have one, you simply don't get the new one (even if it uses a different AC calculation). (See PHB p. 162)







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited yesterday

























answered 2 days ago









Someone_EvilSomeone_Evil

1,540218




1,540218







  • 3




    $begingroup$
    They do not "affect a target at the same time" though. You could activate them once after the other. So do the Giant Elk's Charge first, then swap the Giant Elk's Charge for the Centaur's Charge. The Centaur's Charge requirements have been fulfilled, so it can be triggered as well.
    $endgroup$
    – Merudo
    2 days ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Merudo they are features you have at the same time, with the same proper name
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    2 days ago






  • 7




    $begingroup$
    Charge is not an affect. It's a racial feature. The passage from Xanathar's is only about effects.
    $endgroup$
    – GcL
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @GcL yes. I was agreeing with you. Class features don't really have durations per se, which supports the argument that the line in Xanathar's was not referring to them.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    2 days ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @GcL The DMG Errata rewords that part to say "Different game features" instead of "effects", and clarifies that "Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items", which I think makes it pretty comprehensive.
    $endgroup$
    – anaximander
    yesterday












  • 3




    $begingroup$
    They do not "affect a target at the same time" though. You could activate them once after the other. So do the Giant Elk's Charge first, then swap the Giant Elk's Charge for the Centaur's Charge. The Centaur's Charge requirements have been fulfilled, so it can be triggered as well.
    $endgroup$
    – Merudo
    2 days ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Merudo they are features you have at the same time, with the same proper name
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    2 days ago






  • 7




    $begingroup$
    Charge is not an affect. It's a racial feature. The passage from Xanathar's is only about effects.
    $endgroup$
    – GcL
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @GcL yes. I was agreeing with you. Class features don't really have durations per se, which supports the argument that the line in Xanathar's was not referring to them.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    2 days ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @GcL The DMG Errata rewords that part to say "Different game features" instead of "effects", and clarifies that "Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items", which I think makes it pretty comprehensive.
    $endgroup$
    – anaximander
    yesterday







3




3




$begingroup$
They do not "affect a target at the same time" though. You could activate them once after the other. So do the Giant Elk's Charge first, then swap the Giant Elk's Charge for the Centaur's Charge. The Centaur's Charge requirements have been fulfilled, so it can be triggered as well.
$endgroup$
– Merudo
2 days ago




$begingroup$
They do not "affect a target at the same time" though. You could activate them once after the other. So do the Giant Elk's Charge first, then swap the Giant Elk's Charge for the Centaur's Charge. The Centaur's Charge requirements have been fulfilled, so it can be triggered as well.
$endgroup$
– Merudo
2 days ago




1




1




$begingroup$
@Merudo they are features you have at the same time, with the same proper name
$endgroup$
– Someone_Evil
2 days ago




$begingroup$
@Merudo they are features you have at the same time, with the same proper name
$endgroup$
– Someone_Evil
2 days ago




7




7




$begingroup$
Charge is not an affect. It's a racial feature. The passage from Xanathar's is only about effects.
$endgroup$
– GcL
2 days ago





$begingroup$
Charge is not an affect. It's a racial feature. The passage from Xanathar's is only about effects.
$endgroup$
– GcL
2 days ago





2




2




$begingroup$
@GcL yes. I was agreeing with you. Class features don't really have durations per se, which supports the argument that the line in Xanathar's was not referring to them.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
2 days ago




$begingroup$
@GcL yes. I was agreeing with you. Class features don't really have durations per se, which supports the argument that the line in Xanathar's was not referring to them.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
2 days ago




2




2




$begingroup$
@GcL The DMG Errata rewords that part to say "Different game features" instead of "effects", and clarifies that "Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items", which I think makes it pretty comprehensive.
$endgroup$
– anaximander
yesterday




$begingroup$
@GcL The DMG Errata rewords that part to say "Different game features" instead of "effects", and clarifies that "Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items", which I think makes it pretty comprehensive.
$endgroup$
– anaximander
yesterday










Merudo is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









draft saved

draft discarded


















Merudo is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












Merudo is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











Merudo is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid


  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f144791%2fif-a-centaur-druid-wild-shapes-into-a-giant-elk-do-their-charge-features-stack%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







-charge, dnd-5e, druid, racial-traits, wild-shape

Popular posts from this blog

Frič See also Navigation menuinternal link

Identify plant with long narrow paired leaves and reddish stems Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern) Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?What is this plant with long sharp leaves? Is it a weed?What is this 3ft high, stalky plant, with mid sized narrow leaves?What is this young shrub with opposite ovate, crenate leaves and reddish stems?What is this plant with large broad serrated leaves?Identify this upright branching weed with long leaves and reddish stemsPlease help me identify this bulbous plant with long, broad leaves and white flowersWhat is this small annual with narrow gray/green leaves and rust colored daisy-type flowers?What is this chilli plant?Does anyone know what type of chilli plant this is?Help identify this plant

fontconfig warning: “/etc/fonts/fonts.conf”, line 100: unknown “element blank” The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are In“tar: unrecognized option --warning” during 'apt-get install'How to fix Fontconfig errorHow do I figure out which font file is chosen for a system generic font alias?Why are some apt-get-installed fonts being ignored by fc-list, xfontsel, etc?Reload settings in /etc/fonts/conf.dTaking 30 seconds longer to boot after upgrade from jessie to stretchHow to match multiple font names with a single <match> element?Adding a custom font to fontconfigRemoving fonts from fontconfig <match> resultsBroken fonts after upgrading Firefox ESR to latest Firefox