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Do wooden building fires get hotter than 600°C?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
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After the recent Notre-Dame de Paris fire, there has been a heavily re-posted tweet going around in response to an earlier claim that a golden cross did not melt or deform - due to an act of God.

the Notre Dame Cathedral was a wood fire, and as such could only have reached 600°C, while gold requires 1064°C to melt.
The melting point of gold varies based on purity, and can thus be lower than 1064°C.
However; do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?
I'm obviously not interested in any debate over whether this was an "Act of God" or other unprovable matters.
In terms of personal research, what I have found is that while wood itself will not burn much hotter than 600°C, once it turns to charcoal - it can then reach over 1100°C. However I don't know enough about physics/chemistry or fires, to make a reasonable judgement on how that applies in a real-life fire.
physics fire
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|
show 6 more comments
After the recent Notre-Dame de Paris fire, there has been a heavily re-posted tweet going around in response to an earlier claim that a golden cross did not melt or deform - due to an act of God.

the Notre Dame Cathedral was a wood fire, and as such could only have reached 600°C, while gold requires 1064°C to melt.
The melting point of gold varies based on purity, and can thus be lower than 1064°C.
However; do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?
I'm obviously not interested in any debate over whether this was an "Act of God" or other unprovable matters.
In terms of personal research, what I have found is that while wood itself will not burn much hotter than 600°C, once it turns to charcoal - it can then reach over 1100°C. However I don't know enough about physics/chemistry or fires, to make a reasonable judgement on how that applies in a real-life fire.
physics fire
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Bilkokuya is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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4
The question about wood fire temps is valid, but the original Twitter statement with the pic is bogus. Look at many other pics of the damage (e.g. news.sky.com/story/…): the fire never reached that part of the church. Voting to close as not notable.
– Jan Doggen
10 hours ago
3
@JanDoggen: It's kind of ironic that the sky.com article you link contains a passage that echoes the original Twitter post (i.e. that it is notable after all that the cross was not damaged in the fire): "The cross and altar miraculously survived the inferno, which are now regarded as a beacon of hope."
– Schmuddi
9 hours ago
10
Uh, heat rises. The fire was in the attic. What's "notable" (in some sense) is that the inner ceiling (mostly) "held", so that relatively little debris fell into the altar area. Gold is soft, and a falling timber could have easily smashed the cross.
– Daniel R Hicks
9 hours ago
32
Never mind the gold cross, why aren't any of those wax candles melted?
– plasticinsect
8 hours ago
18
@plasticinsect you nailed it: the candles which are designed to burn are not burned, hence there was no fire here. That's consistent with the reports that only the roof burned. The damage below was from falling debris, not fire.
– TemporalWolf
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
After the recent Notre-Dame de Paris fire, there has been a heavily re-posted tweet going around in response to an earlier claim that a golden cross did not melt or deform - due to an act of God.

the Notre Dame Cathedral was a wood fire, and as such could only have reached 600°C, while gold requires 1064°C to melt.
The melting point of gold varies based on purity, and can thus be lower than 1064°C.
However; do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?
I'm obviously not interested in any debate over whether this was an "Act of God" or other unprovable matters.
In terms of personal research, what I have found is that while wood itself will not burn much hotter than 600°C, once it turns to charcoal - it can then reach over 1100°C. However I don't know enough about physics/chemistry or fires, to make a reasonable judgement on how that applies in a real-life fire.
physics fire
New contributor
Bilkokuya is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
After the recent Notre-Dame de Paris fire, there has been a heavily re-posted tweet going around in response to an earlier claim that a golden cross did not melt or deform - due to an act of God.

the Notre Dame Cathedral was a wood fire, and as such could only have reached 600°C, while gold requires 1064°C to melt.
The melting point of gold varies based on purity, and can thus be lower than 1064°C.
However; do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?
I'm obviously not interested in any debate over whether this was an "Act of God" or other unprovable matters.
In terms of personal research, what I have found is that while wood itself will not burn much hotter than 600°C, once it turns to charcoal - it can then reach over 1100°C. However I don't know enough about physics/chemistry or fires, to make a reasonable judgement on how that applies in a real-life fire.
physics fire
physics fire
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Bilkokuya is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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Bilkokuya is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 12 hours ago
Oddthinking♦
102k31427531
102k31427531
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asked 12 hours ago
BilkokuyaBilkokuya
23137
23137
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New contributor
Bilkokuya is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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4
The question about wood fire temps is valid, but the original Twitter statement with the pic is bogus. Look at many other pics of the damage (e.g. news.sky.com/story/…): the fire never reached that part of the church. Voting to close as not notable.
– Jan Doggen
10 hours ago
3
@JanDoggen: It's kind of ironic that the sky.com article you link contains a passage that echoes the original Twitter post (i.e. that it is notable after all that the cross was not damaged in the fire): "The cross and altar miraculously survived the inferno, which are now regarded as a beacon of hope."
– Schmuddi
9 hours ago
10
Uh, heat rises. The fire was in the attic. What's "notable" (in some sense) is that the inner ceiling (mostly) "held", so that relatively little debris fell into the altar area. Gold is soft, and a falling timber could have easily smashed the cross.
– Daniel R Hicks
9 hours ago
32
Never mind the gold cross, why aren't any of those wax candles melted?
– plasticinsect
8 hours ago
18
@plasticinsect you nailed it: the candles which are designed to burn are not burned, hence there was no fire here. That's consistent with the reports that only the roof burned. The damage below was from falling debris, not fire.
– TemporalWolf
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
4
The question about wood fire temps is valid, but the original Twitter statement with the pic is bogus. Look at many other pics of the damage (e.g. news.sky.com/story/…): the fire never reached that part of the church. Voting to close as not notable.
– Jan Doggen
10 hours ago
3
@JanDoggen: It's kind of ironic that the sky.com article you link contains a passage that echoes the original Twitter post (i.e. that it is notable after all that the cross was not damaged in the fire): "The cross and altar miraculously survived the inferno, which are now regarded as a beacon of hope."
– Schmuddi
9 hours ago
10
Uh, heat rises. The fire was in the attic. What's "notable" (in some sense) is that the inner ceiling (mostly) "held", so that relatively little debris fell into the altar area. Gold is soft, and a falling timber could have easily smashed the cross.
– Daniel R Hicks
9 hours ago
32
Never mind the gold cross, why aren't any of those wax candles melted?
– plasticinsect
8 hours ago
18
@plasticinsect you nailed it: the candles which are designed to burn are not burned, hence there was no fire here. That's consistent with the reports that only the roof burned. The damage below was from falling debris, not fire.
– TemporalWolf
7 hours ago
4
4
The question about wood fire temps is valid, but the original Twitter statement with the pic is bogus. Look at many other pics of the damage (e.g. news.sky.com/story/…): the fire never reached that part of the church. Voting to close as not notable.
– Jan Doggen
10 hours ago
The question about wood fire temps is valid, but the original Twitter statement with the pic is bogus. Look at many other pics of the damage (e.g. news.sky.com/story/…): the fire never reached that part of the church. Voting to close as not notable.
– Jan Doggen
10 hours ago
3
3
@JanDoggen: It's kind of ironic that the sky.com article you link contains a passage that echoes the original Twitter post (i.e. that it is notable after all that the cross was not damaged in the fire): "The cross and altar miraculously survived the inferno, which are now regarded as a beacon of hope."
– Schmuddi
9 hours ago
@JanDoggen: It's kind of ironic that the sky.com article you link contains a passage that echoes the original Twitter post (i.e. that it is notable after all that the cross was not damaged in the fire): "The cross and altar miraculously survived the inferno, which are now regarded as a beacon of hope."
– Schmuddi
9 hours ago
10
10
Uh, heat rises. The fire was in the attic. What's "notable" (in some sense) is that the inner ceiling (mostly) "held", so that relatively little debris fell into the altar area. Gold is soft, and a falling timber could have easily smashed the cross.
– Daniel R Hicks
9 hours ago
Uh, heat rises. The fire was in the attic. What's "notable" (in some sense) is that the inner ceiling (mostly) "held", so that relatively little debris fell into the altar area. Gold is soft, and a falling timber could have easily smashed the cross.
– Daniel R Hicks
9 hours ago
32
32
Never mind the gold cross, why aren't any of those wax candles melted?
– plasticinsect
8 hours ago
Never mind the gold cross, why aren't any of those wax candles melted?
– plasticinsect
8 hours ago
18
18
@plasticinsect you nailed it: the candles which are designed to burn are not burned, hence there was no fire here. That's consistent with the reports that only the roof burned. The damage below was from falling debris, not fire.
– TemporalWolf
7 hours ago
@plasticinsect you nailed it: the candles which are designed to burn are not burned, hence there was no fire here. That's consistent with the reports that only the roof burned. The damage below was from falling debris, not fire.
– TemporalWolf
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
Probably yes: According to at least one expert, the temperature in the Notre Dame fire must have been extremely high, and probably exceeded 600°C.
Yesterday the Süddeutsche Zeitung, one of Germany's most reputable newspapers, published an interview with the director of the German Technisches Hilfswerk (the Federal Agency for Technical Relief) and former director of the Fire Departments of Berlin, Albrecht Broemme. The interview covers several aspects of the Notre Dame fire (for example, Broemme explains why using water bombers was out of the question). He also discusses why this was an extraordinarily difficult task for the fire fighters. One reason he mentions is the extreme heat of the flames:
Der Farbe der Flammen nach zu urteilen müssen die Temperaturen bei 800, 900 Grad gelegen haben.
(My translation: "Judging from the color of the flames, temperatures must have been 800 or 900°C.")
Of course, this interview is not a peer-reviewed publication on the temperatures that wood fires can reach. However, based on this expert statement, there is little reason to doubt that a fire such as the Notre Dame fire can be far hotter than the 600°C the Twitter comment mentions. Note of course that his statement does not answer whether the fire was really hot enough to melt the golden altar cross, or whether the choir was actually exposed to this extreme temperature.
add a comment |
Without acknowledging any of the conditions actually present in the church, wood fires can get much hotter than 600°C.
The maximum temperatures measured within the pile were of the order of 800, 1000, and 1200 °C for piles composed of 1.27, 2.54, and 9.15 cm sticks respectively, although the maximum temperatures for a given size stick appeared, from all data obtained, to be somewhat dependent upon the structure of the pile. The prescribed temperature-time curve of a standard fire exposure test 1 is also shown in figure 4 from which a general agreement may be noted.
D Gross: "Experiments on the Burning of Cross Piles of Wood", Journal of Research of the National Bureau of Standards- C. Engineering and Instrumentation Vol. 66C, No.2, April-June 1962. (PDF)
A nice pile of wood with good ventilation can get apparently really hot:
Fire plume temperature data suggest a maximum turbulent flame temperature in fully developed compartment fires of about 1500 C for stoichiometric and adiabatic conditions. Experimental results for crib and pool fires are presented to support the trends indicated by the approximate analyses.
In general, from equations 12 and 13 for stoichiometric conditions, the temperature is given as
[MATH FORMULA]
where Tf,ad is the stoichiometric adiabatic flame temperature. Recorded gas temperatures near the ceiling are reported as high as 1350 C [21], and mean temperatures over the peak burning period are 1000 to 1200 C for polyethylene fires [21] and approximately 900 to 1200 C for wood cribs [20]. For turbulent fire plumes, having a radiative loss fraction Xr, a similar formula applies to the combustion region. This turbulent flame (centerline) temperature is given as [18]
[MATH FORMULA]
From the best available data [22–24], the turbulent mixing parameter, kT, is found to be approximately 0.5 for cp 1 kJ/kg K. As the fire diameter increases, the radiative fraction falls due to soot blockage [25]. Fig. 4 shows flame temperature data for turbulent plumes as a function of Xr. The extrapolated adiabatic temperature is approximately 1500 C. For a realistic adiabatic flame temperature of 2000 C, the actual turbulent mixing factor is approximately 0.75 or a turbulent dilution factor of 1.5. For a large fire in a compartment with large vents, the core maximum flame temperature should approach the turbulent adiabatic flame temperature.
James G. Quintiere: "Fire Behavior in Building Compartments", Proceedings of the Combustion Institute, Volume 29, 2002/pp. 181–193. DOI
But to be very sticklish, the claim is actually somewhat correct. Why?
M. J. Spearpoint And J. G. Quintiere: "Predicting the Burning of Wood Using an Integral Model", Combustion And Flame, 123:308–324 (2000). DOI
Or to put it simply:
A bonfire can reach temperatures as hot as 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit), which is hot enough to melt some metals.
Most types of wood will start combusting at about 300 degrees Celsius. The gases burn and increase the temperature of the wood to about 600 degrees Celsius (1,112 degrees Fahrenheit). When the wood has released all its gases, it leaves charcoal and ashes. Charcoal burns at temperatures exceeding 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit).
Gabriella Munoz: "How Hot Is a Bonfire?", Sciencing, April 26, 2018.
Wikpedia says
This is a rough guide to flame temperatures for various common substances (in 20 °C air at 1 atm. pressure):
Wood 1,027 °C (1880.6 °F)
Methanol 1,200 °C (2192 °F)
Charcoal (forced draft) 1,390 °C (2534 °F)
and gives for adiabatic flame temperature maximum even:
Wood Air 1980°C 3596°F
The French authorities seem to have suggested that inside the church 800°C might have been reached:
Contrairement aux pompiers américains, les sapeurs-pompiers français s’attaquent aux incendies par l’intérieur et non de l’extérieur. Cette tactique est plus dangereuse pour les hommes mais plus efficace pour sauver le patrimoine, observe l’expert Serge Delhaye. Si l’on se concentre sur l’extérieur, on prend le risque de repousser les flammes et les gaz chauds, qui peuvent atteindre 800 degrés, vers l’intérieur et accroître les dégâts. »
"Six questions sur l’incendie de Notre-Dame de Paris", Le Parisien, Jean-Michel Décugis, Vincent Gautronneau et Jérémie Pham-Lê| 15 avril 2019, 23h40
Most sources seem to quote a temperature of 1000°C for this incidence, but other sources even go up to 1400°C:
Fires peak at 1,400°C, explains professor Guillermo Rein, the head of Imperial College London's fire-studying Hazelab.
Nicole Kobie: "The hot, dangerous physics of fighting the Notre Dame fire", Wire, Tuesday 16 April 2019
add a comment |
Wood is a perfectly acceptable and common material used in metal forging even more so when it becomes partially combusted (charcoal). What really determines the heat though, is the amount of oxygen it can get. If there were medium-high winds blowing on the building it could have melted even steel beams.
Reference: https://youtu.be/x_wYozMBWNk
In that video you see a forge burning raw wood getting hot enough to make steel white which typically happens around 1200C (reference2: http://www.smex.net.au/reference/SteelColours02.php)
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9
Q: "do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?" My Answer: "It's certainly possible". How doesn't it target the question?
– Jesse_b
7 hours ago
2
skeptics.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1505/… Maybe this is more helpful. An answer always needs a reference. You can have a look at the answer of LangLangC or target the specific occasion, like answer from Schmuddi
– Maxim
7 hours ago
3
References added
– Jesse_b
7 hours ago
3
Exactly. Virtually every metal forge for thousands of years was wood-fueled. Given fuels have a minimum temperature at which they will combust at a given pressure, but that doesn't mean it's the only temperature at which they will combust.
– reirab
6 hours ago
3
@Maxim How is this not an answer to the question? If anything, I think that it's actually the simplest explanation given so far of why the claim in question is incorrect. In particular, I think that the point about wood fires being used to melt metal all the time is actually really compelling.
– EJoshuaS
4 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
The entire type of assertion "if X is burning, and X is said to burn at Y temperature, then the fire cannot melt Z which melts at Z temperature" is fundamentally flawed at at least two levels.
The burning point of a material is the usual minimum point where it starts to burn, but not the maximum temperature of a fire involving that material.
The temperature that would apply to a melting point is the temperature of the air in the environment, and as Jesse_b very rightly answered, that temperature is more about air flow, and the overall situation of the space. The amount of burning fuel, amount of air in fire reactions, and the heat and air flow of the entire environment all contribute to how hot that environment gets.
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Probably yes: According to at least one expert, the temperature in the Notre Dame fire must have been extremely high, and probably exceeded 600°C.
Yesterday the Süddeutsche Zeitung, one of Germany's most reputable newspapers, published an interview with the director of the German Technisches Hilfswerk (the Federal Agency for Technical Relief) and former director of the Fire Departments of Berlin, Albrecht Broemme. The interview covers several aspects of the Notre Dame fire (for example, Broemme explains why using water bombers was out of the question). He also discusses why this was an extraordinarily difficult task for the fire fighters. One reason he mentions is the extreme heat of the flames:
Der Farbe der Flammen nach zu urteilen müssen die Temperaturen bei 800, 900 Grad gelegen haben.
(My translation: "Judging from the color of the flames, temperatures must have been 800 or 900°C.")
Of course, this interview is not a peer-reviewed publication on the temperatures that wood fires can reach. However, based on this expert statement, there is little reason to doubt that a fire such as the Notre Dame fire can be far hotter than the 600°C the Twitter comment mentions. Note of course that his statement does not answer whether the fire was really hot enough to melt the golden altar cross, or whether the choir was actually exposed to this extreme temperature.
add a comment |
Probably yes: According to at least one expert, the temperature in the Notre Dame fire must have been extremely high, and probably exceeded 600°C.
Yesterday the Süddeutsche Zeitung, one of Germany's most reputable newspapers, published an interview with the director of the German Technisches Hilfswerk (the Federal Agency for Technical Relief) and former director of the Fire Departments of Berlin, Albrecht Broemme. The interview covers several aspects of the Notre Dame fire (for example, Broemme explains why using water bombers was out of the question). He also discusses why this was an extraordinarily difficult task for the fire fighters. One reason he mentions is the extreme heat of the flames:
Der Farbe der Flammen nach zu urteilen müssen die Temperaturen bei 800, 900 Grad gelegen haben.
(My translation: "Judging from the color of the flames, temperatures must have been 800 or 900°C.")
Of course, this interview is not a peer-reviewed publication on the temperatures that wood fires can reach. However, based on this expert statement, there is little reason to doubt that a fire such as the Notre Dame fire can be far hotter than the 600°C the Twitter comment mentions. Note of course that his statement does not answer whether the fire was really hot enough to melt the golden altar cross, or whether the choir was actually exposed to this extreme temperature.
add a comment |
Probably yes: According to at least one expert, the temperature in the Notre Dame fire must have been extremely high, and probably exceeded 600°C.
Yesterday the Süddeutsche Zeitung, one of Germany's most reputable newspapers, published an interview with the director of the German Technisches Hilfswerk (the Federal Agency for Technical Relief) and former director of the Fire Departments of Berlin, Albrecht Broemme. The interview covers several aspects of the Notre Dame fire (for example, Broemme explains why using water bombers was out of the question). He also discusses why this was an extraordinarily difficult task for the fire fighters. One reason he mentions is the extreme heat of the flames:
Der Farbe der Flammen nach zu urteilen müssen die Temperaturen bei 800, 900 Grad gelegen haben.
(My translation: "Judging from the color of the flames, temperatures must have been 800 or 900°C.")
Of course, this interview is not a peer-reviewed publication on the temperatures that wood fires can reach. However, based on this expert statement, there is little reason to doubt that a fire such as the Notre Dame fire can be far hotter than the 600°C the Twitter comment mentions. Note of course that his statement does not answer whether the fire was really hot enough to melt the golden altar cross, or whether the choir was actually exposed to this extreme temperature.
Probably yes: According to at least one expert, the temperature in the Notre Dame fire must have been extremely high, and probably exceeded 600°C.
Yesterday the Süddeutsche Zeitung, one of Germany's most reputable newspapers, published an interview with the director of the German Technisches Hilfswerk (the Federal Agency for Technical Relief) and former director of the Fire Departments of Berlin, Albrecht Broemme. The interview covers several aspects of the Notre Dame fire (for example, Broemme explains why using water bombers was out of the question). He also discusses why this was an extraordinarily difficult task for the fire fighters. One reason he mentions is the extreme heat of the flames:
Der Farbe der Flammen nach zu urteilen müssen die Temperaturen bei 800, 900 Grad gelegen haben.
(My translation: "Judging from the color of the flames, temperatures must have been 800 or 900°C.")
Of course, this interview is not a peer-reviewed publication on the temperatures that wood fires can reach. However, based on this expert statement, there is little reason to doubt that a fire such as the Notre Dame fire can be far hotter than the 600°C the Twitter comment mentions. Note of course that his statement does not answer whether the fire was really hot enough to melt the golden altar cross, or whether the choir was actually exposed to this extreme temperature.
edited 10 hours ago
Oddthinking♦
102k31427531
102k31427531
answered 11 hours ago
SchmuddiSchmuddi
2,98421524
2,98421524
add a comment |
add a comment |
Without acknowledging any of the conditions actually present in the church, wood fires can get much hotter than 600°C.
The maximum temperatures measured within the pile were of the order of 800, 1000, and 1200 °C for piles composed of 1.27, 2.54, and 9.15 cm sticks respectively, although the maximum temperatures for a given size stick appeared, from all data obtained, to be somewhat dependent upon the structure of the pile. The prescribed temperature-time curve of a standard fire exposure test 1 is also shown in figure 4 from which a general agreement may be noted.
D Gross: "Experiments on the Burning of Cross Piles of Wood", Journal of Research of the National Bureau of Standards- C. Engineering and Instrumentation Vol. 66C, No.2, April-June 1962. (PDF)
A nice pile of wood with good ventilation can get apparently really hot:
Fire plume temperature data suggest a maximum turbulent flame temperature in fully developed compartment fires of about 1500 C for stoichiometric and adiabatic conditions. Experimental results for crib and pool fires are presented to support the trends indicated by the approximate analyses.
In general, from equations 12 and 13 for stoichiometric conditions, the temperature is given as
[MATH FORMULA]
where Tf,ad is the stoichiometric adiabatic flame temperature. Recorded gas temperatures near the ceiling are reported as high as 1350 C [21], and mean temperatures over the peak burning period are 1000 to 1200 C for polyethylene fires [21] and approximately 900 to 1200 C for wood cribs [20]. For turbulent fire plumes, having a radiative loss fraction Xr, a similar formula applies to the combustion region. This turbulent flame (centerline) temperature is given as [18]
[MATH FORMULA]
From the best available data [22–24], the turbulent mixing parameter, kT, is found to be approximately 0.5 for cp 1 kJ/kg K. As the fire diameter increases, the radiative fraction falls due to soot blockage [25]. Fig. 4 shows flame temperature data for turbulent plumes as a function of Xr. The extrapolated adiabatic temperature is approximately 1500 C. For a realistic adiabatic flame temperature of 2000 C, the actual turbulent mixing factor is approximately 0.75 or a turbulent dilution factor of 1.5. For a large fire in a compartment with large vents, the core maximum flame temperature should approach the turbulent adiabatic flame temperature.
James G. Quintiere: "Fire Behavior in Building Compartments", Proceedings of the Combustion Institute, Volume 29, 2002/pp. 181–193. DOI
But to be very sticklish, the claim is actually somewhat correct. Why?
M. J. Spearpoint And J. G. Quintiere: "Predicting the Burning of Wood Using an Integral Model", Combustion And Flame, 123:308–324 (2000). DOI
Or to put it simply:
A bonfire can reach temperatures as hot as 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit), which is hot enough to melt some metals.
Most types of wood will start combusting at about 300 degrees Celsius. The gases burn and increase the temperature of the wood to about 600 degrees Celsius (1,112 degrees Fahrenheit). When the wood has released all its gases, it leaves charcoal and ashes. Charcoal burns at temperatures exceeding 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit).
Gabriella Munoz: "How Hot Is a Bonfire?", Sciencing, April 26, 2018.
Wikpedia says
This is a rough guide to flame temperatures for various common substances (in 20 °C air at 1 atm. pressure):
Wood 1,027 °C (1880.6 °F)
Methanol 1,200 °C (2192 °F)
Charcoal (forced draft) 1,390 °C (2534 °F)
and gives for adiabatic flame temperature maximum even:
Wood Air 1980°C 3596°F
The French authorities seem to have suggested that inside the church 800°C might have been reached:
Contrairement aux pompiers américains, les sapeurs-pompiers français s’attaquent aux incendies par l’intérieur et non de l’extérieur. Cette tactique est plus dangereuse pour les hommes mais plus efficace pour sauver le patrimoine, observe l’expert Serge Delhaye. Si l’on se concentre sur l’extérieur, on prend le risque de repousser les flammes et les gaz chauds, qui peuvent atteindre 800 degrés, vers l’intérieur et accroître les dégâts. »
"Six questions sur l’incendie de Notre-Dame de Paris", Le Parisien, Jean-Michel Décugis, Vincent Gautronneau et Jérémie Pham-Lê| 15 avril 2019, 23h40
Most sources seem to quote a temperature of 1000°C for this incidence, but other sources even go up to 1400°C:
Fires peak at 1,400°C, explains professor Guillermo Rein, the head of Imperial College London's fire-studying Hazelab.
Nicole Kobie: "The hot, dangerous physics of fighting the Notre Dame fire", Wire, Tuesday 16 April 2019
add a comment |
Without acknowledging any of the conditions actually present in the church, wood fires can get much hotter than 600°C.
The maximum temperatures measured within the pile were of the order of 800, 1000, and 1200 °C for piles composed of 1.27, 2.54, and 9.15 cm sticks respectively, although the maximum temperatures for a given size stick appeared, from all data obtained, to be somewhat dependent upon the structure of the pile. The prescribed temperature-time curve of a standard fire exposure test 1 is also shown in figure 4 from which a general agreement may be noted.
D Gross: "Experiments on the Burning of Cross Piles of Wood", Journal of Research of the National Bureau of Standards- C. Engineering and Instrumentation Vol. 66C, No.2, April-June 1962. (PDF)
A nice pile of wood with good ventilation can get apparently really hot:
Fire plume temperature data suggest a maximum turbulent flame temperature in fully developed compartment fires of about 1500 C for stoichiometric and adiabatic conditions. Experimental results for crib and pool fires are presented to support the trends indicated by the approximate analyses.
In general, from equations 12 and 13 for stoichiometric conditions, the temperature is given as
[MATH FORMULA]
where Tf,ad is the stoichiometric adiabatic flame temperature. Recorded gas temperatures near the ceiling are reported as high as 1350 C [21], and mean temperatures over the peak burning period are 1000 to 1200 C for polyethylene fires [21] and approximately 900 to 1200 C for wood cribs [20]. For turbulent fire plumes, having a radiative loss fraction Xr, a similar formula applies to the combustion region. This turbulent flame (centerline) temperature is given as [18]
[MATH FORMULA]
From the best available data [22–24], the turbulent mixing parameter, kT, is found to be approximately 0.5 for cp 1 kJ/kg K. As the fire diameter increases, the radiative fraction falls due to soot blockage [25]. Fig. 4 shows flame temperature data for turbulent plumes as a function of Xr. The extrapolated adiabatic temperature is approximately 1500 C. For a realistic adiabatic flame temperature of 2000 C, the actual turbulent mixing factor is approximately 0.75 or a turbulent dilution factor of 1.5. For a large fire in a compartment with large vents, the core maximum flame temperature should approach the turbulent adiabatic flame temperature.
James G. Quintiere: "Fire Behavior in Building Compartments", Proceedings of the Combustion Institute, Volume 29, 2002/pp. 181–193. DOI
But to be very sticklish, the claim is actually somewhat correct. Why?
M. J. Spearpoint And J. G. Quintiere: "Predicting the Burning of Wood Using an Integral Model", Combustion And Flame, 123:308–324 (2000). DOI
Or to put it simply:
A bonfire can reach temperatures as hot as 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit), which is hot enough to melt some metals.
Most types of wood will start combusting at about 300 degrees Celsius. The gases burn and increase the temperature of the wood to about 600 degrees Celsius (1,112 degrees Fahrenheit). When the wood has released all its gases, it leaves charcoal and ashes. Charcoal burns at temperatures exceeding 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit).
Gabriella Munoz: "How Hot Is a Bonfire?", Sciencing, April 26, 2018.
Wikpedia says
This is a rough guide to flame temperatures for various common substances (in 20 °C air at 1 atm. pressure):
Wood 1,027 °C (1880.6 °F)
Methanol 1,200 °C (2192 °F)
Charcoal (forced draft) 1,390 °C (2534 °F)
and gives for adiabatic flame temperature maximum even:
Wood Air 1980°C 3596°F
The French authorities seem to have suggested that inside the church 800°C might have been reached:
Contrairement aux pompiers américains, les sapeurs-pompiers français s’attaquent aux incendies par l’intérieur et non de l’extérieur. Cette tactique est plus dangereuse pour les hommes mais plus efficace pour sauver le patrimoine, observe l’expert Serge Delhaye. Si l’on se concentre sur l’extérieur, on prend le risque de repousser les flammes et les gaz chauds, qui peuvent atteindre 800 degrés, vers l’intérieur et accroître les dégâts. »
"Six questions sur l’incendie de Notre-Dame de Paris", Le Parisien, Jean-Michel Décugis, Vincent Gautronneau et Jérémie Pham-Lê| 15 avril 2019, 23h40
Most sources seem to quote a temperature of 1000°C for this incidence, but other sources even go up to 1400°C:
Fires peak at 1,400°C, explains professor Guillermo Rein, the head of Imperial College London's fire-studying Hazelab.
Nicole Kobie: "The hot, dangerous physics of fighting the Notre Dame fire", Wire, Tuesday 16 April 2019
add a comment |
Without acknowledging any of the conditions actually present in the church, wood fires can get much hotter than 600°C.
The maximum temperatures measured within the pile were of the order of 800, 1000, and 1200 °C for piles composed of 1.27, 2.54, and 9.15 cm sticks respectively, although the maximum temperatures for a given size stick appeared, from all data obtained, to be somewhat dependent upon the structure of the pile. The prescribed temperature-time curve of a standard fire exposure test 1 is also shown in figure 4 from which a general agreement may be noted.
D Gross: "Experiments on the Burning of Cross Piles of Wood", Journal of Research of the National Bureau of Standards- C. Engineering and Instrumentation Vol. 66C, No.2, April-June 1962. (PDF)
A nice pile of wood with good ventilation can get apparently really hot:
Fire plume temperature data suggest a maximum turbulent flame temperature in fully developed compartment fires of about 1500 C for stoichiometric and adiabatic conditions. Experimental results for crib and pool fires are presented to support the trends indicated by the approximate analyses.
In general, from equations 12 and 13 for stoichiometric conditions, the temperature is given as
[MATH FORMULA]
where Tf,ad is the stoichiometric adiabatic flame temperature. Recorded gas temperatures near the ceiling are reported as high as 1350 C [21], and mean temperatures over the peak burning period are 1000 to 1200 C for polyethylene fires [21] and approximately 900 to 1200 C for wood cribs [20]. For turbulent fire plumes, having a radiative loss fraction Xr, a similar formula applies to the combustion region. This turbulent flame (centerline) temperature is given as [18]
[MATH FORMULA]
From the best available data [22–24], the turbulent mixing parameter, kT, is found to be approximately 0.5 for cp 1 kJ/kg K. As the fire diameter increases, the radiative fraction falls due to soot blockage [25]. Fig. 4 shows flame temperature data for turbulent plumes as a function of Xr. The extrapolated adiabatic temperature is approximately 1500 C. For a realistic adiabatic flame temperature of 2000 C, the actual turbulent mixing factor is approximately 0.75 or a turbulent dilution factor of 1.5. For a large fire in a compartment with large vents, the core maximum flame temperature should approach the turbulent adiabatic flame temperature.
James G. Quintiere: "Fire Behavior in Building Compartments", Proceedings of the Combustion Institute, Volume 29, 2002/pp. 181–193. DOI
But to be very sticklish, the claim is actually somewhat correct. Why?
M. J. Spearpoint And J. G. Quintiere: "Predicting the Burning of Wood Using an Integral Model", Combustion And Flame, 123:308–324 (2000). DOI
Or to put it simply:
A bonfire can reach temperatures as hot as 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit), which is hot enough to melt some metals.
Most types of wood will start combusting at about 300 degrees Celsius. The gases burn and increase the temperature of the wood to about 600 degrees Celsius (1,112 degrees Fahrenheit). When the wood has released all its gases, it leaves charcoal and ashes. Charcoal burns at temperatures exceeding 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit).
Gabriella Munoz: "How Hot Is a Bonfire?", Sciencing, April 26, 2018.
Wikpedia says
This is a rough guide to flame temperatures for various common substances (in 20 °C air at 1 atm. pressure):
Wood 1,027 °C (1880.6 °F)
Methanol 1,200 °C (2192 °F)
Charcoal (forced draft) 1,390 °C (2534 °F)
and gives for adiabatic flame temperature maximum even:
Wood Air 1980°C 3596°F
The French authorities seem to have suggested that inside the church 800°C might have been reached:
Contrairement aux pompiers américains, les sapeurs-pompiers français s’attaquent aux incendies par l’intérieur et non de l’extérieur. Cette tactique est plus dangereuse pour les hommes mais plus efficace pour sauver le patrimoine, observe l’expert Serge Delhaye. Si l’on se concentre sur l’extérieur, on prend le risque de repousser les flammes et les gaz chauds, qui peuvent atteindre 800 degrés, vers l’intérieur et accroître les dégâts. »
"Six questions sur l’incendie de Notre-Dame de Paris", Le Parisien, Jean-Michel Décugis, Vincent Gautronneau et Jérémie Pham-Lê| 15 avril 2019, 23h40
Most sources seem to quote a temperature of 1000°C for this incidence, but other sources even go up to 1400°C:
Fires peak at 1,400°C, explains professor Guillermo Rein, the head of Imperial College London's fire-studying Hazelab.
Nicole Kobie: "The hot, dangerous physics of fighting the Notre Dame fire", Wire, Tuesday 16 April 2019
Without acknowledging any of the conditions actually present in the church, wood fires can get much hotter than 600°C.
The maximum temperatures measured within the pile were of the order of 800, 1000, and 1200 °C for piles composed of 1.27, 2.54, and 9.15 cm sticks respectively, although the maximum temperatures for a given size stick appeared, from all data obtained, to be somewhat dependent upon the structure of the pile. The prescribed temperature-time curve of a standard fire exposure test 1 is also shown in figure 4 from which a general agreement may be noted.
D Gross: "Experiments on the Burning of Cross Piles of Wood", Journal of Research of the National Bureau of Standards- C. Engineering and Instrumentation Vol. 66C, No.2, April-June 1962. (PDF)
A nice pile of wood with good ventilation can get apparently really hot:
Fire plume temperature data suggest a maximum turbulent flame temperature in fully developed compartment fires of about 1500 C for stoichiometric and adiabatic conditions. Experimental results for crib and pool fires are presented to support the trends indicated by the approximate analyses.
In general, from equations 12 and 13 for stoichiometric conditions, the temperature is given as
[MATH FORMULA]
where Tf,ad is the stoichiometric adiabatic flame temperature. Recorded gas temperatures near the ceiling are reported as high as 1350 C [21], and mean temperatures over the peak burning period are 1000 to 1200 C for polyethylene fires [21] and approximately 900 to 1200 C for wood cribs [20]. For turbulent fire plumes, having a radiative loss fraction Xr, a similar formula applies to the combustion region. This turbulent flame (centerline) temperature is given as [18]
[MATH FORMULA]
From the best available data [22–24], the turbulent mixing parameter, kT, is found to be approximately 0.5 for cp 1 kJ/kg K. As the fire diameter increases, the radiative fraction falls due to soot blockage [25]. Fig. 4 shows flame temperature data for turbulent plumes as a function of Xr. The extrapolated adiabatic temperature is approximately 1500 C. For a realistic adiabatic flame temperature of 2000 C, the actual turbulent mixing factor is approximately 0.75 or a turbulent dilution factor of 1.5. For a large fire in a compartment with large vents, the core maximum flame temperature should approach the turbulent adiabatic flame temperature.
James G. Quintiere: "Fire Behavior in Building Compartments", Proceedings of the Combustion Institute, Volume 29, 2002/pp. 181–193. DOI
But to be very sticklish, the claim is actually somewhat correct. Why?
M. J. Spearpoint And J. G. Quintiere: "Predicting the Burning of Wood Using an Integral Model", Combustion And Flame, 123:308–324 (2000). DOI
Or to put it simply:
A bonfire can reach temperatures as hot as 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit), which is hot enough to melt some metals.
Most types of wood will start combusting at about 300 degrees Celsius. The gases burn and increase the temperature of the wood to about 600 degrees Celsius (1,112 degrees Fahrenheit). When the wood has released all its gases, it leaves charcoal and ashes. Charcoal burns at temperatures exceeding 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit).
Gabriella Munoz: "How Hot Is a Bonfire?", Sciencing, April 26, 2018.
Wikpedia says
This is a rough guide to flame temperatures for various common substances (in 20 °C air at 1 atm. pressure):
Wood 1,027 °C (1880.6 °F)
Methanol 1,200 °C (2192 °F)
Charcoal (forced draft) 1,390 °C (2534 °F)
and gives for adiabatic flame temperature maximum even:
Wood Air 1980°C 3596°F
The French authorities seem to have suggested that inside the church 800°C might have been reached:
Contrairement aux pompiers américains, les sapeurs-pompiers français s’attaquent aux incendies par l’intérieur et non de l’extérieur. Cette tactique est plus dangereuse pour les hommes mais plus efficace pour sauver le patrimoine, observe l’expert Serge Delhaye. Si l’on se concentre sur l’extérieur, on prend le risque de repousser les flammes et les gaz chauds, qui peuvent atteindre 800 degrés, vers l’intérieur et accroître les dégâts. »
"Six questions sur l’incendie de Notre-Dame de Paris", Le Parisien, Jean-Michel Décugis, Vincent Gautronneau et Jérémie Pham-Lê| 15 avril 2019, 23h40
Most sources seem to quote a temperature of 1000°C for this incidence, but other sources even go up to 1400°C:
Fires peak at 1,400°C, explains professor Guillermo Rein, the head of Imperial College London's fire-studying Hazelab.
Nicole Kobie: "The hot, dangerous physics of fighting the Notre Dame fire", Wire, Tuesday 16 April 2019
edited 6 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
LangLangCLangLangC
17.3k47186
17.3k47186
add a comment |
add a comment |
Wood is a perfectly acceptable and common material used in metal forging even more so when it becomes partially combusted (charcoal). What really determines the heat though, is the amount of oxygen it can get. If there were medium-high winds blowing on the building it could have melted even steel beams.
Reference: https://youtu.be/x_wYozMBWNk
In that video you see a forge burning raw wood getting hot enough to make steel white which typically happens around 1200C (reference2: http://www.smex.net.au/reference/SteelColours02.php)
New contributor
Jesse_b is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
9
Q: "do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?" My Answer: "It's certainly possible". How doesn't it target the question?
– Jesse_b
7 hours ago
2
skeptics.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1505/… Maybe this is more helpful. An answer always needs a reference. You can have a look at the answer of LangLangC or target the specific occasion, like answer from Schmuddi
– Maxim
7 hours ago
3
References added
– Jesse_b
7 hours ago
3
Exactly. Virtually every metal forge for thousands of years was wood-fueled. Given fuels have a minimum temperature at which they will combust at a given pressure, but that doesn't mean it's the only temperature at which they will combust.
– reirab
6 hours ago
3
@Maxim How is this not an answer to the question? If anything, I think that it's actually the simplest explanation given so far of why the claim in question is incorrect. In particular, I think that the point about wood fires being used to melt metal all the time is actually really compelling.
– EJoshuaS
4 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
Wood is a perfectly acceptable and common material used in metal forging even more so when it becomes partially combusted (charcoal). What really determines the heat though, is the amount of oxygen it can get. If there were medium-high winds blowing on the building it could have melted even steel beams.
Reference: https://youtu.be/x_wYozMBWNk
In that video you see a forge burning raw wood getting hot enough to make steel white which typically happens around 1200C (reference2: http://www.smex.net.au/reference/SteelColours02.php)
New contributor
Jesse_b is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
9
Q: "do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?" My Answer: "It's certainly possible". How doesn't it target the question?
– Jesse_b
7 hours ago
2
skeptics.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1505/… Maybe this is more helpful. An answer always needs a reference. You can have a look at the answer of LangLangC or target the specific occasion, like answer from Schmuddi
– Maxim
7 hours ago
3
References added
– Jesse_b
7 hours ago
3
Exactly. Virtually every metal forge for thousands of years was wood-fueled. Given fuels have a minimum temperature at which they will combust at a given pressure, but that doesn't mean it's the only temperature at which they will combust.
– reirab
6 hours ago
3
@Maxim How is this not an answer to the question? If anything, I think that it's actually the simplest explanation given so far of why the claim in question is incorrect. In particular, I think that the point about wood fires being used to melt metal all the time is actually really compelling.
– EJoshuaS
4 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
Wood is a perfectly acceptable and common material used in metal forging even more so when it becomes partially combusted (charcoal). What really determines the heat though, is the amount of oxygen it can get. If there were medium-high winds blowing on the building it could have melted even steel beams.
Reference: https://youtu.be/x_wYozMBWNk
In that video you see a forge burning raw wood getting hot enough to make steel white which typically happens around 1200C (reference2: http://www.smex.net.au/reference/SteelColours02.php)
New contributor
Jesse_b is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Wood is a perfectly acceptable and common material used in metal forging even more so when it becomes partially combusted (charcoal). What really determines the heat though, is the amount of oxygen it can get. If there were medium-high winds blowing on the building it could have melted even steel beams.
Reference: https://youtu.be/x_wYozMBWNk
In that video you see a forge burning raw wood getting hot enough to make steel white which typically happens around 1200C (reference2: http://www.smex.net.au/reference/SteelColours02.php)
New contributor
Jesse_b is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 7 hours ago
New contributor
Jesse_b is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 8 hours ago
Jesse_bJesse_b
2516
2516
New contributor
Jesse_b is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Jesse_b is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Jesse_b is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
9
Q: "do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?" My Answer: "It's certainly possible". How doesn't it target the question?
– Jesse_b
7 hours ago
2
skeptics.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1505/… Maybe this is more helpful. An answer always needs a reference. You can have a look at the answer of LangLangC or target the specific occasion, like answer from Schmuddi
– Maxim
7 hours ago
3
References added
– Jesse_b
7 hours ago
3
Exactly. Virtually every metal forge for thousands of years was wood-fueled. Given fuels have a minimum temperature at which they will combust at a given pressure, but that doesn't mean it's the only temperature at which they will combust.
– reirab
6 hours ago
3
@Maxim How is this not an answer to the question? If anything, I think that it's actually the simplest explanation given so far of why the claim in question is incorrect. In particular, I think that the point about wood fires being used to melt metal all the time is actually really compelling.
– EJoshuaS
4 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
9
Q: "do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?" My Answer: "It's certainly possible". How doesn't it target the question?
– Jesse_b
7 hours ago
2
skeptics.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1505/… Maybe this is more helpful. An answer always needs a reference. You can have a look at the answer of LangLangC or target the specific occasion, like answer from Schmuddi
– Maxim
7 hours ago
3
References added
– Jesse_b
7 hours ago
3
Exactly. Virtually every metal forge for thousands of years was wood-fueled. Given fuels have a minimum temperature at which they will combust at a given pressure, but that doesn't mean it's the only temperature at which they will combust.
– reirab
6 hours ago
3
@Maxim How is this not an answer to the question? If anything, I think that it's actually the simplest explanation given so far of why the claim in question is incorrect. In particular, I think that the point about wood fires being used to melt metal all the time is actually really compelling.
– EJoshuaS
4 hours ago
9
9
Q: "do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?" My Answer: "It's certainly possible". How doesn't it target the question?
– Jesse_b
7 hours ago
Q: "do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?" My Answer: "It's certainly possible". How doesn't it target the question?
– Jesse_b
7 hours ago
2
2
skeptics.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1505/… Maybe this is more helpful. An answer always needs a reference. You can have a look at the answer of LangLangC or target the specific occasion, like answer from Schmuddi
– Maxim
7 hours ago
skeptics.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1505/… Maybe this is more helpful. An answer always needs a reference. You can have a look at the answer of LangLangC or target the specific occasion, like answer from Schmuddi
– Maxim
7 hours ago
3
3
References added
– Jesse_b
7 hours ago
References added
– Jesse_b
7 hours ago
3
3
Exactly. Virtually every metal forge for thousands of years was wood-fueled. Given fuels have a minimum temperature at which they will combust at a given pressure, but that doesn't mean it's the only temperature at which they will combust.
– reirab
6 hours ago
Exactly. Virtually every metal forge for thousands of years was wood-fueled. Given fuels have a minimum temperature at which they will combust at a given pressure, but that doesn't mean it's the only temperature at which they will combust.
– reirab
6 hours ago
3
3
@Maxim How is this not an answer to the question? If anything, I think that it's actually the simplest explanation given so far of why the claim in question is incorrect. In particular, I think that the point about wood fires being used to melt metal all the time is actually really compelling.
– EJoshuaS
4 hours ago
@Maxim How is this not an answer to the question? If anything, I think that it's actually the simplest explanation given so far of why the claim in question is incorrect. In particular, I think that the point about wood fires being used to melt metal all the time is actually really compelling.
– EJoshuaS
4 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
The entire type of assertion "if X is burning, and X is said to burn at Y temperature, then the fire cannot melt Z which melts at Z temperature" is fundamentally flawed at at least two levels.
The burning point of a material is the usual minimum point where it starts to burn, but not the maximum temperature of a fire involving that material.
The temperature that would apply to a melting point is the temperature of the air in the environment, and as Jesse_b very rightly answered, that temperature is more about air flow, and the overall situation of the space. The amount of burning fuel, amount of air in fire reactions, and the heat and air flow of the entire environment all contribute to how hot that environment gets.
add a comment |
The entire type of assertion "if X is burning, and X is said to burn at Y temperature, then the fire cannot melt Z which melts at Z temperature" is fundamentally flawed at at least two levels.
The burning point of a material is the usual minimum point where it starts to burn, but not the maximum temperature of a fire involving that material.
The temperature that would apply to a melting point is the temperature of the air in the environment, and as Jesse_b very rightly answered, that temperature is more about air flow, and the overall situation of the space. The amount of burning fuel, amount of air in fire reactions, and the heat and air flow of the entire environment all contribute to how hot that environment gets.
add a comment |
The entire type of assertion "if X is burning, and X is said to burn at Y temperature, then the fire cannot melt Z which melts at Z temperature" is fundamentally flawed at at least two levels.
The burning point of a material is the usual minimum point where it starts to burn, but not the maximum temperature of a fire involving that material.
The temperature that would apply to a melting point is the temperature of the air in the environment, and as Jesse_b very rightly answered, that temperature is more about air flow, and the overall situation of the space. The amount of burning fuel, amount of air in fire reactions, and the heat and air flow of the entire environment all contribute to how hot that environment gets.
The entire type of assertion "if X is burning, and X is said to burn at Y temperature, then the fire cannot melt Z which melts at Z temperature" is fundamentally flawed at at least two levels.
The burning point of a material is the usual minimum point where it starts to burn, but not the maximum temperature of a fire involving that material.
The temperature that would apply to a melting point is the temperature of the air in the environment, and as Jesse_b very rightly answered, that temperature is more about air flow, and the overall situation of the space. The amount of burning fuel, amount of air in fire reactions, and the heat and air flow of the entire environment all contribute to how hot that environment gets.
answered 1 hour ago
DronzDronz
1208
1208
add a comment |
add a comment |
-fire, physics


4
The question about wood fire temps is valid, but the original Twitter statement with the pic is bogus. Look at many other pics of the damage (e.g. news.sky.com/story/…): the fire never reached that part of the church. Voting to close as not notable.
– Jan Doggen
10 hours ago
3
@JanDoggen: It's kind of ironic that the sky.com article you link contains a passage that echoes the original Twitter post (i.e. that it is notable after all that the cross was not damaged in the fire): "The cross and altar miraculously survived the inferno, which are now regarded as a beacon of hope."
– Schmuddi
9 hours ago
10
Uh, heat rises. The fire was in the attic. What's "notable" (in some sense) is that the inner ceiling (mostly) "held", so that relatively little debris fell into the altar area. Gold is soft, and a falling timber could have easily smashed the cross.
– Daniel R Hicks
9 hours ago
32
Never mind the gold cross, why aren't any of those wax candles melted?
– plasticinsect
8 hours ago
18
@plasticinsect you nailed it: the candles which are designed to burn are not burned, hence there was no fire here. That's consistent with the reports that only the roof burned. The damage below was from falling debris, not fire.
– TemporalWolf
7 hours ago