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Should QA ask requirements to developers?

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4

Considering Agile software development process. Is it a good practice to ask requirements directly to developers rather than product owner ? Just because development team had gathered some requirement from product owner as they are ahead with development. Ideally from whom QA should gather requirements ?

agile-testing agile development-process

share|improve this question

asked 4 hours ago

Shubham TakodeShubham Takode

1213

New contributor

Shubham Takode is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  How does your agile environment look like? It sounds like the testers are not part of the team....?
  
  – Ray Oei
  4 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Teams works independently.
  
  – Shubham Takode
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

4

Considering Agile software development process. Is it a good practice to ask requirements directly to developers rather than product owner ? Just because development team had gathered some requirement from product owner as they are ahead with development. Ideally from whom QA should gather requirements ?

agile-testing agile development-process

share|improve this question

asked 4 hours ago

Shubham TakodeShubham Takode

1213

New contributor

Shubham Takode is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  How does your agile environment look like? It sounds like the testers are not part of the team....?
  
  – Ray Oei
  4 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Teams works independently.
  
  – Shubham Takode
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

Considering Agile software development process. Is it a good practice to ask requirements directly to developers rather than product owner ? Just because development team had gathered some requirement from product owner as they are ahead with development. Ideally from whom QA should gather requirements ?

agile-testing agile development-process

share|improve this question

asked 4 hours ago

Shubham TakodeShubham Takode

1213

New contributor

Shubham Takode is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

share|improve this question

asked 4 hours ago

Shubham TakodeShubham Takode

1213

New contributor

Shubham Takode is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

share|improve this question

asked 4 hours ago

Shubham TakodeShubham Takode

1213

New contributor

Shubham Takode is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

asked 4 hours ago

Shubham TakodeShubham Takode

1213

New contributor

Shubham Takode is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

asked 4 hours ago

Shubham TakodeShubham Takode

1213

3 Answers
3

active

oldest

votes

5

No. Requirements should be originated from a single point. Your developers might misunderstand something so that you'll be testing not what your stakeholders require but what your developers implemented (effect of a broken phone).

Asking your product owner will let you catch the gaps between what the business expects vs what your team actually implemented.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Alexey R.Alexey R.

7,5521931

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I agree that there should be a single source of truth, i.e. a product owner, but it may make sense to ask developers about requirements in addition to asking the product owner. If they do not match that might be helpful to identify misunderstanding earlier (if the requirements have not been implemented yet) or focus tests in this particular area (otherwise).
  
  – dzieciou
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  What if the product owner is not aligned with the current state of the application, and the team made a conflicting decision, because good reasons? Probably you should consult both the developers and the product owner.
  
  – Niels van Reijmersdal
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Yes, but consulting does not mean asking for requirements. Asking both devs and PO means just a doublework. There could be other roles in the team, so in this logic adding new role would add one more step to negotiate the requirements. If the product owner is not aligned with the current state then there are serious issues with company processes. I'm not saying that QA may ask devs about the source of their vision of the final product. But this is rather the exceptional case. Obviously not the "ideal case" the OP's mentioning in their question.
  
  – Alexey R.
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

2

I wouldn't say it's "good practice" to ask the developers for requirements, as they'll have their own interpretation of them.

If possible, always try and get your requirements from the business analyst or product owner (if they're the requesting the change or providing the requirements).

You can ask the developers as a last resort... but take what they say with a pinch of salt and challenge them (always ask 'why') if the changes don't make sense to you.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

trashpandatrashpanda

1,4541629

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I disagree, Agile development teams should have the freedom to change requirements if it helps them to reach their goals easier, better or quicker. Now the code is the only truthful implementation of the requirements. So I would try to get the info from the full team, e.g. Developers, PO's and any other person in the team.
  
  – Niels van Reijmersdal
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Developers should be the enablers for change, not the definers. That would also remove the need for BA's or PO's. If the requirement is for a background to be blue but they decide it's better in green... then what's the point in having requirements (or a BA or PO) in the first place?
  
  – trashpanda
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  The PO is to maximize ROI and steer the what, not detailed requirements. I would rather have a development team that decides green is better then blindly following requirements. Read about the 41 shades of blue at Google. Therefore I dont see a need for BA's or other disciplines in Agile teams, although having expertise might make the full team stronger, silos wont. Read: theguardian.com/technology/2014/feb/05/…
  
  – Niels van Reijmersdal
  2 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  You've linked to an article where the Head of Product (the product owner) changed the logo's colour requirements which subsequently made Google $200m... but what if the development team, upon being given the requirements, decided that green would be better? or pink? or black? Who would OP get the actual requirements from? How could OP pass the test if it's not what the product owner or BA asked for?
  
  – trashpanda
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

2

Ask your team, maybe during the Daily Standup? Saying your impeded by lack of requirements details. The team can now decide whom is the handiest to assist you. Hopefully the Product Owner is at the Daily Standup and can help you, but at least the Team coach (e.g. Scrum Master like person) can try to support you to resolve the issue.

I would expect the whole team to be aware and aligned of what they are currently focused on, including the acceptance criteria. Sounds like you are not part of the team, or not working together closely enough.

Also the Agile Testing Manifesto suggests:

We value testing throughout over testing at the end.

They suggest testing is an activity, instead of a phase or handover.
You could be working on the same details as the developers have in parallel.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Niels van ReijmersdalNiels van Reijmersdal

20.8k23071

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Thanks this is exactly what I think. Also our product owner never participates in daily stand-up :(
  
  – Shubham Takode
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

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5

No. Requirements should be originated from a single point. Your developers might misunderstand something so that you'll be testing not what your stakeholders require but what your developers implemented (effect of a broken phone).

Asking your product owner will let you catch the gaps between what the business expects vs what your team actually implemented.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Alexey R.Alexey R.

7,5521931

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I agree that there should be a single source of truth, i.e. a product owner, but it may make sense to ask developers about requirements in addition to asking the product owner. If they do not match that might be helpful to identify misunderstanding earlier (if the requirements have not been implemented yet) or focus tests in this particular area (otherwise).
  
  – dzieciou
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  What if the product owner is not aligned with the current state of the application, and the team made a conflicting decision, because good reasons? Probably you should consult both the developers and the product owner.
  
  – Niels van Reijmersdal
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Yes, but consulting does not mean asking for requirements. Asking both devs and PO means just a doublework. There could be other roles in the team, so in this logic adding new role would add one more step to negotiate the requirements. If the product owner is not aligned with the current state then there are serious issues with company processes. I'm not saying that QA may ask devs about the source of their vision of the final product. But this is rather the exceptional case. Obviously not the "ideal case" the OP's mentioning in their question.
  
  – Alexey R.
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

5

No. Requirements should be originated from a single point. Your developers might misunderstand something so that you'll be testing not what your stakeholders require but what your developers implemented (effect of a broken phone).

Asking your product owner will let you catch the gaps between what the business expects vs what your team actually implemented.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Alexey R.Alexey R.

7,5521931

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I agree that there should be a single source of truth, i.e. a product owner, but it may make sense to ask developers about requirements in addition to asking the product owner. If they do not match that might be helpful to identify misunderstanding earlier (if the requirements have not been implemented yet) or focus tests in this particular area (otherwise).
  
  – dzieciou
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  What if the product owner is not aligned with the current state of the application, and the team made a conflicting decision, because good reasons? Probably you should consult both the developers and the product owner.
  
  – Niels van Reijmersdal
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Yes, but consulting does not mean asking for requirements. Asking both devs and PO means just a doublework. There could be other roles in the team, so in this logic adding new role would add one more step to negotiate the requirements. If the product owner is not aligned with the current state then there are serious issues with company processes. I'm not saying that QA may ask devs about the source of their vision of the final product. But this is rather the exceptional case. Obviously not the "ideal case" the OP's mentioning in their question.
  
  – Alexey R.
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

No. Requirements should be originated from a single point. Your developers might misunderstand something so that you'll be testing not what your stakeholders require but what your developers implemented (effect of a broken phone).

Asking your product owner will let you catch the gaps between what the business expects vs what your team actually implemented.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Alexey R.Alexey R.

7,5521931

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Alexey R.Alexey R.

7,5521931

answered 3 hours ago

Alexey R.Alexey R.

7,5521931

answered 3 hours ago

Alexey R.Alexey R.

7,5521931

2

I wouldn't say it's "good practice" to ask the developers for requirements, as they'll have their own interpretation of them.

If possible, always try and get your requirements from the business analyst or product owner (if they're the requesting the change or providing the requirements).

You can ask the developers as a last resort... but take what they say with a pinch of salt and challenge them (always ask 'why') if the changes don't make sense to you.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

trashpandatrashpanda

1,4541629

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I disagree, Agile development teams should have the freedom to change requirements if it helps them to reach their goals easier, better or quicker. Now the code is the only truthful implementation of the requirements. So I would try to get the info from the full team, e.g. Developers, PO's and any other person in the team.
  
  – Niels van Reijmersdal
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Developers should be the enablers for change, not the definers. That would also remove the need for BA's or PO's. If the requirement is for a background to be blue but they decide it's better in green... then what's the point in having requirements (or a BA or PO) in the first place?
  
  – trashpanda
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  The PO is to maximize ROI and steer the what, not detailed requirements. I would rather have a development team that decides green is better then blindly following requirements. Read about the 41 shades of blue at Google. Therefore I dont see a need for BA's or other disciplines in Agile teams, although having expertise might make the full team stronger, silos wont. Read: theguardian.com/technology/2014/feb/05/…
  
  – Niels van Reijmersdal
  2 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  You've linked to an article where the Head of Product (the product owner) changed the logo's colour requirements which subsequently made Google $200m... but what if the development team, upon being given the requirements, decided that green would be better? or pink? or black? Who would OP get the actual requirements from? How could OP pass the test if it's not what the product owner or BA asked for?
  
  – trashpanda
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

2

I wouldn't say it's "good practice" to ask the developers for requirements, as they'll have their own interpretation of them.

If possible, always try and get your requirements from the business analyst or product owner (if they're the requesting the change or providing the requirements).

You can ask the developers as a last resort... but take what they say with a pinch of salt and challenge them (always ask 'why') if the changes don't make sense to you.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

trashpandatrashpanda

1,4541629

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I disagree, Agile development teams should have the freedom to change requirements if it helps them to reach their goals easier, better or quicker. Now the code is the only truthful implementation of the requirements. So I would try to get the info from the full team, e.g. Developers, PO's and any other person in the team.
  
  – Niels van Reijmersdal
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Developers should be the enablers for change, not the definers. That would also remove the need for BA's or PO's. If the requirement is for a background to be blue but they decide it's better in green... then what's the point in having requirements (or a BA or PO) in the first place?
  
  – trashpanda
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  The PO is to maximize ROI and steer the what, not detailed requirements. I would rather have a development team that decides green is better then blindly following requirements. Read about the 41 shades of blue at Google. Therefore I dont see a need for BA's or other disciplines in Agile teams, although having expertise might make the full team stronger, silos wont. Read: theguardian.com/technology/2014/feb/05/…
  
  – Niels van Reijmersdal
  2 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  You've linked to an article where the Head of Product (the product owner) changed the logo's colour requirements which subsequently made Google $200m... but what if the development team, upon being given the requirements, decided that green would be better? or pink? or black? Who would OP get the actual requirements from? How could OP pass the test if it's not what the product owner or BA asked for?
  
  – trashpanda
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

I wouldn't say it's "good practice" to ask the developers for requirements, as they'll have their own interpretation of them.

If possible, always try and get your requirements from the business analyst or product owner (if they're the requesting the change or providing the requirements).

You can ask the developers as a last resort... but take what they say with a pinch of salt and challenge them (always ask 'why') if the changes don't make sense to you.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

trashpandatrashpanda

1,4541629

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

trashpandatrashpanda

1,4541629

answered 3 hours ago

trashpandatrashpanda

1,4541629

answered 3 hours ago

trashpandatrashpanda

1,4541629

2

Ask your team, maybe during the Daily Standup? Saying your impeded by lack of requirements details. The team can now decide whom is the handiest to assist you. Hopefully the Product Owner is at the Daily Standup and can help you, but at least the Team coach (e.g. Scrum Master like person) can try to support you to resolve the issue.

I would expect the whole team to be aware and aligned of what they are currently focused on, including the acceptance criteria. Sounds like you are not part of the team, or not working together closely enough.

Also the Agile Testing Manifesto suggests:

We value testing throughout over testing at the end.

They suggest testing is an activity, instead of a phase or handover.
You could be working on the same details as the developers have in parallel.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Niels van ReijmersdalNiels van Reijmersdal

20.8k23071

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Thanks this is exactly what I think. Also our product owner never participates in daily stand-up :(
  
  – Shubham Takode
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

2

Ask your team, maybe during the Daily Standup? Saying your impeded by lack of requirements details. The team can now decide whom is the handiest to assist you. Hopefully the Product Owner is at the Daily Standup and can help you, but at least the Team coach (e.g. Scrum Master like person) can try to support you to resolve the issue.

I would expect the whole team to be aware and aligned of what they are currently focused on, including the acceptance criteria. Sounds like you are not part of the team, or not working together closely enough.

Also the Agile Testing Manifesto suggests:

We value testing throughout over testing at the end.

They suggest testing is an activity, instead of a phase or handover.
You could be working on the same details as the developers have in parallel.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Niels van ReijmersdalNiels van Reijmersdal

20.8k23071

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Thanks this is exactly what I think. Also our product owner never participates in daily stand-up :(
  
  – Shubham Takode
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

Ask your team, maybe during the Daily Standup? Saying your impeded by lack of requirements details. The team can now decide whom is the handiest to assist you. Hopefully the Product Owner is at the Daily Standup and can help you, but at least the Team coach (e.g. Scrum Master like person) can try to support you to resolve the issue.

I would expect the whole team to be aware and aligned of what they are currently focused on, including the acceptance criteria. Sounds like you are not part of the team, or not working together closely enough.

Also the Agile Testing Manifesto suggests:

We value testing throughout over testing at the end.

They suggest testing is an activity, instead of a phase or handover.
You could be working on the same details as the developers have in parallel.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Niels van ReijmersdalNiels van Reijmersdal

20.8k23071

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Niels van ReijmersdalNiels van Reijmersdal

20.8k23071

answered 3 hours ago

Niels van ReijmersdalNiels van Reijmersdal

20.8k23071

answered 3 hours ago

Niels van ReijmersdalNiels van Reijmersdal

20.8k23071