How to be diplomatic in refusing to write code that breaches the privacy of our usersNot aligned with employer's current strategy - need adviceHow do I prevent my manager from abusing a contract specification that breaches my privacy?Is it ethical for an Employer to use personal (financial) information in negotiating salary?How to deal with stand-up meetings in the open space that have no privacy?Ethics of replaying a failed financial transactionHow do I politely tell my boss that I don't want to watch him write code?Is it against german privacy protection laws to disclose that someone worked on the weekend?Our product is ruining users privacy, without telling themIs native mobile development a dead end career path?Supervisor putting me to impossible deadline, ignoring feasibility warnings, and failing to deal with the fallout

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How to be diplomatic in refusing to write code that breaches the privacy of our users


Not aligned with employer's current strategy - need adviceHow do I prevent my manager from abusing a contract specification that breaches my privacy?Is it ethical for an Employer to use personal (financial) information in negotiating salary?How to deal with stand-up meetings in the open space that have no privacy?Ethics of replaying a failed financial transactionHow do I politely tell my boss that I don't want to watch him write code?Is it against german privacy protection laws to disclose that someone worked on the weekend?Our product is ruining users privacy, without telling themIs native mobile development a dead end career path?Supervisor putting me to impossible deadline, ignoring feasibility warnings, and failing to deal with the fallout













184















I am a team lead in a company located in Manila, and I am currently writing an app that has a seriously questionable feature request for its Android users -- which is to secretly record its surroundings using the phone camera. When I asked the CEO why we have to write this feature, I am told that it would achieve user safety and it would give cops leverage by way of investigation in case something in the videos can be used as evidence.



Having this feature is impossible for iOS users, so that leaves Android. This, of course, could place the company under serious fire for invading users' privacy when we get found out. In fact, as far as my country's laws go, it not only illegal, it is unconstitutional. This argument fell on my CEO's deaf ears, citing the legalistic "terms of service" that users would be made to agree upon, and he pointed out in jest that I should not question his business ideas.



Developing this feature is also problematic from a development standpoint. Operating the camera from the background would put too much toll on the phone's battery. Uploading the videos would also be vampiric on the user's internet connection. Lastly, it is impossible to do on iOs.



While the entire development team agrees with my assessment and is just as uncomfortable with the feature request as I am, the product owner explains to me that while the feature is truly useless, it still has to be made so as to attract investors. And it did please the investors based on the last meeting with them.



My team has thus far insisted that Apple does not allow its developers to run the camera in the background and that we have agreed that instead of a video recording, we would instead take pictures every ten seconds. But I am a hardliner about this and I do not want us developing anything close to this feature.



As this feature is definitely "marketing-driven" as the product owner suggests, I want to know counter-arguments from an investor's standpoint so that the feature would be scrapped in its entirety.



In general, how do I become diplomatic about this matter? I believe I can still talk some sense into the CEO. I have no qualms leaving this company on account of the poor management but I love my dev team, their superior skills, and the workplace culture that we have cultivated. As much as I would want to use our value to the company as leverage against the CEO--If you insist that we do this feature, we will leave--I wish to be charitable still.



Thank you!










share|improve this question



















  • 1





    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.

    – Snow
    17 hours ago






  • 12





    As far as I know newer release of Android do not allow the use of microphone and camera for background processes, so I doubt the feature you mention would even work on newer versions of Android (then obviously only a tiny fraction of users actually use those versions...)

    – Giacomo Alzetta
    15 hours ago






  • 12





    I would like to thank you for standing up and taking an ethical position, when it would have been easy to quietly comply. I wish I could be more helpful.

    – sdenham
    10 hours ago







  • 3





    Personally, I'd suggest brushing up on your resume and deleting this question altogether. Then, when the app comes out, simply make an anonymous post somewhere (e.g. AndroidCentral.com) alerting users as to what it does. Someone will watch the app, confirm the behavior, and then your (hopefully former) company will sink like a rock under the bad press.

    – Doktor J
    9 hours ago






  • 13





    Strange that no one mentioned this earlier. There is a War on Drugs going on in Philippines. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Drug_War . Suspected drug dealers are being extrajudicially killed with governments’s approval. I strongly suspect that “law enforcement” mentioned wants to use OP’s app in this war. With such context, OP may be in real physical danger if caught hindering those plans. And all those “call the police”/“go to court” suggestions may not help, but endanger OP further. Rule of law is not respected now at Philippines.

    – Neith
    7 hours ago















184















I am a team lead in a company located in Manila, and I am currently writing an app that has a seriously questionable feature request for its Android users -- which is to secretly record its surroundings using the phone camera. When I asked the CEO why we have to write this feature, I am told that it would achieve user safety and it would give cops leverage by way of investigation in case something in the videos can be used as evidence.



Having this feature is impossible for iOS users, so that leaves Android. This, of course, could place the company under serious fire for invading users' privacy when we get found out. In fact, as far as my country's laws go, it not only illegal, it is unconstitutional. This argument fell on my CEO's deaf ears, citing the legalistic "terms of service" that users would be made to agree upon, and he pointed out in jest that I should not question his business ideas.



Developing this feature is also problematic from a development standpoint. Operating the camera from the background would put too much toll on the phone's battery. Uploading the videos would also be vampiric on the user's internet connection. Lastly, it is impossible to do on iOs.



While the entire development team agrees with my assessment and is just as uncomfortable with the feature request as I am, the product owner explains to me that while the feature is truly useless, it still has to be made so as to attract investors. And it did please the investors based on the last meeting with them.



My team has thus far insisted that Apple does not allow its developers to run the camera in the background and that we have agreed that instead of a video recording, we would instead take pictures every ten seconds. But I am a hardliner about this and I do not want us developing anything close to this feature.



As this feature is definitely "marketing-driven" as the product owner suggests, I want to know counter-arguments from an investor's standpoint so that the feature would be scrapped in its entirety.



In general, how do I become diplomatic about this matter? I believe I can still talk some sense into the CEO. I have no qualms leaving this company on account of the poor management but I love my dev team, their superior skills, and the workplace culture that we have cultivated. As much as I would want to use our value to the company as leverage against the CEO--If you insist that we do this feature, we will leave--I wish to be charitable still.



Thank you!










share|improve this question



















  • 1





    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.

    – Snow
    17 hours ago






  • 12





    As far as I know newer release of Android do not allow the use of microphone and camera for background processes, so I doubt the feature you mention would even work on newer versions of Android (then obviously only a tiny fraction of users actually use those versions...)

    – Giacomo Alzetta
    15 hours ago






  • 12





    I would like to thank you for standing up and taking an ethical position, when it would have been easy to quietly comply. I wish I could be more helpful.

    – sdenham
    10 hours ago







  • 3





    Personally, I'd suggest brushing up on your resume and deleting this question altogether. Then, when the app comes out, simply make an anonymous post somewhere (e.g. AndroidCentral.com) alerting users as to what it does. Someone will watch the app, confirm the behavior, and then your (hopefully former) company will sink like a rock under the bad press.

    – Doktor J
    9 hours ago






  • 13





    Strange that no one mentioned this earlier. There is a War on Drugs going on in Philippines. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Drug_War . Suspected drug dealers are being extrajudicially killed with governments’s approval. I strongly suspect that “law enforcement” mentioned wants to use OP’s app in this war. With such context, OP may be in real physical danger if caught hindering those plans. And all those “call the police”/“go to court” suggestions may not help, but endanger OP further. Rule of law is not respected now at Philippines.

    – Neith
    7 hours ago













184












184








184


14






I am a team lead in a company located in Manila, and I am currently writing an app that has a seriously questionable feature request for its Android users -- which is to secretly record its surroundings using the phone camera. When I asked the CEO why we have to write this feature, I am told that it would achieve user safety and it would give cops leverage by way of investigation in case something in the videos can be used as evidence.



Having this feature is impossible for iOS users, so that leaves Android. This, of course, could place the company under serious fire for invading users' privacy when we get found out. In fact, as far as my country's laws go, it not only illegal, it is unconstitutional. This argument fell on my CEO's deaf ears, citing the legalistic "terms of service" that users would be made to agree upon, and he pointed out in jest that I should not question his business ideas.



Developing this feature is also problematic from a development standpoint. Operating the camera from the background would put too much toll on the phone's battery. Uploading the videos would also be vampiric on the user's internet connection. Lastly, it is impossible to do on iOs.



While the entire development team agrees with my assessment and is just as uncomfortable with the feature request as I am, the product owner explains to me that while the feature is truly useless, it still has to be made so as to attract investors. And it did please the investors based on the last meeting with them.



My team has thus far insisted that Apple does not allow its developers to run the camera in the background and that we have agreed that instead of a video recording, we would instead take pictures every ten seconds. But I am a hardliner about this and I do not want us developing anything close to this feature.



As this feature is definitely "marketing-driven" as the product owner suggests, I want to know counter-arguments from an investor's standpoint so that the feature would be scrapped in its entirety.



In general, how do I become diplomatic about this matter? I believe I can still talk some sense into the CEO. I have no qualms leaving this company on account of the poor management but I love my dev team, their superior skills, and the workplace culture that we have cultivated. As much as I would want to use our value to the company as leverage against the CEO--If you insist that we do this feature, we will leave--I wish to be charitable still.



Thank you!










share|improve this question
















I am a team lead in a company located in Manila, and I am currently writing an app that has a seriously questionable feature request for its Android users -- which is to secretly record its surroundings using the phone camera. When I asked the CEO why we have to write this feature, I am told that it would achieve user safety and it would give cops leverage by way of investigation in case something in the videos can be used as evidence.



Having this feature is impossible for iOS users, so that leaves Android. This, of course, could place the company under serious fire for invading users' privacy when we get found out. In fact, as far as my country's laws go, it not only illegal, it is unconstitutional. This argument fell on my CEO's deaf ears, citing the legalistic "terms of service" that users would be made to agree upon, and he pointed out in jest that I should not question his business ideas.



Developing this feature is also problematic from a development standpoint. Operating the camera from the background would put too much toll on the phone's battery. Uploading the videos would also be vampiric on the user's internet connection. Lastly, it is impossible to do on iOs.



While the entire development team agrees with my assessment and is just as uncomfortable with the feature request as I am, the product owner explains to me that while the feature is truly useless, it still has to be made so as to attract investors. And it did please the investors based on the last meeting with them.



My team has thus far insisted that Apple does not allow its developers to run the camera in the background and that we have agreed that instead of a video recording, we would instead take pictures every ten seconds. But I am a hardliner about this and I do not want us developing anything close to this feature.



As this feature is definitely "marketing-driven" as the product owner suggests, I want to know counter-arguments from an investor's standpoint so that the feature would be scrapped in its entirety.



In general, how do I become diplomatic about this matter? I believe I can still talk some sense into the CEO. I have no qualms leaving this company on account of the poor management but I love my dev team, their superior skills, and the workplace culture that we have cultivated. As much as I would want to use our value to the company as leverage against the CEO--If you insist that we do this feature, we will leave--I wish to be charitable still.



Thank you!







ethics software-development privacy philippines






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited yesterday









David K

24.6k1685125




24.6k1685125










asked yesterday









Jenny Tengson MandaniJenny Tengson Mandani

8943722




8943722







  • 1





    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.

    – Snow
    17 hours ago






  • 12





    As far as I know newer release of Android do not allow the use of microphone and camera for background processes, so I doubt the feature you mention would even work on newer versions of Android (then obviously only a tiny fraction of users actually use those versions...)

    – Giacomo Alzetta
    15 hours ago






  • 12





    I would like to thank you for standing up and taking an ethical position, when it would have been easy to quietly comply. I wish I could be more helpful.

    – sdenham
    10 hours ago







  • 3





    Personally, I'd suggest brushing up on your resume and deleting this question altogether. Then, when the app comes out, simply make an anonymous post somewhere (e.g. AndroidCentral.com) alerting users as to what it does. Someone will watch the app, confirm the behavior, and then your (hopefully former) company will sink like a rock under the bad press.

    – Doktor J
    9 hours ago






  • 13





    Strange that no one mentioned this earlier. There is a War on Drugs going on in Philippines. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Drug_War . Suspected drug dealers are being extrajudicially killed with governments’s approval. I strongly suspect that “law enforcement” mentioned wants to use OP’s app in this war. With such context, OP may be in real physical danger if caught hindering those plans. And all those “call the police”/“go to court” suggestions may not help, but endanger OP further. Rule of law is not respected now at Philippines.

    – Neith
    7 hours ago












  • 1





    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.

    – Snow
    17 hours ago






  • 12





    As far as I know newer release of Android do not allow the use of microphone and camera for background processes, so I doubt the feature you mention would even work on newer versions of Android (then obviously only a tiny fraction of users actually use those versions...)

    – Giacomo Alzetta
    15 hours ago






  • 12





    I would like to thank you for standing up and taking an ethical position, when it would have been easy to quietly comply. I wish I could be more helpful.

    – sdenham
    10 hours ago







  • 3





    Personally, I'd suggest brushing up on your resume and deleting this question altogether. Then, when the app comes out, simply make an anonymous post somewhere (e.g. AndroidCentral.com) alerting users as to what it does. Someone will watch the app, confirm the behavior, and then your (hopefully former) company will sink like a rock under the bad press.

    – Doktor J
    9 hours ago






  • 13





    Strange that no one mentioned this earlier. There is a War on Drugs going on in Philippines. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Drug_War . Suspected drug dealers are being extrajudicially killed with governments’s approval. I strongly suspect that “law enforcement” mentioned wants to use OP’s app in this war. With such context, OP may be in real physical danger if caught hindering those plans. And all those “call the police”/“go to court” suggestions may not help, but endanger OP further. Rule of law is not respected now at Philippines.

    – Neith
    7 hours ago







1




1





Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.

– Snow
17 hours ago





Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.

– Snow
17 hours ago




12




12





As far as I know newer release of Android do not allow the use of microphone and camera for background processes, so I doubt the feature you mention would even work on newer versions of Android (then obviously only a tiny fraction of users actually use those versions...)

– Giacomo Alzetta
15 hours ago





As far as I know newer release of Android do not allow the use of microphone and camera for background processes, so I doubt the feature you mention would even work on newer versions of Android (then obviously only a tiny fraction of users actually use those versions...)

– Giacomo Alzetta
15 hours ago




12




12





I would like to thank you for standing up and taking an ethical position, when it would have been easy to quietly comply. I wish I could be more helpful.

– sdenham
10 hours ago






I would like to thank you for standing up and taking an ethical position, when it would have been easy to quietly comply. I wish I could be more helpful.

– sdenham
10 hours ago





3




3





Personally, I'd suggest brushing up on your resume and deleting this question altogether. Then, when the app comes out, simply make an anonymous post somewhere (e.g. AndroidCentral.com) alerting users as to what it does. Someone will watch the app, confirm the behavior, and then your (hopefully former) company will sink like a rock under the bad press.

– Doktor J
9 hours ago





Personally, I'd suggest brushing up on your resume and deleting this question altogether. Then, when the app comes out, simply make an anonymous post somewhere (e.g. AndroidCentral.com) alerting users as to what it does. Someone will watch the app, confirm the behavior, and then your (hopefully former) company will sink like a rock under the bad press.

– Doktor J
9 hours ago




13




13





Strange that no one mentioned this earlier. There is a War on Drugs going on in Philippines. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Drug_War . Suspected drug dealers are being extrajudicially killed with governments’s approval. I strongly suspect that “law enforcement” mentioned wants to use OP’s app in this war. With such context, OP may be in real physical danger if caught hindering those plans. And all those “call the police”/“go to court” suggestions may not help, but endanger OP further. Rule of law is not respected now at Philippines.

– Neith
7 hours ago





Strange that no one mentioned this earlier. There is a War on Drugs going on in Philippines. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Drug_War . Suspected drug dealers are being extrajudicially killed with governments’s approval. I strongly suspect that “law enforcement” mentioned wants to use OP’s app in this war. With such context, OP may be in real physical danger if caught hindering those plans. And all those “call the police”/“go to court” suggestions may not help, but endanger OP further. Rule of law is not respected now at Philippines.

– Neith
7 hours ago










17 Answers
17






active

oldest

votes


















225















This of course could place the company under serious fire for invading
users' privacy when we get found out. In fact, as far as my country's
laws go, it not only illegal, it is unconstitutional.




You're being asked to break the law and do things that might land you in prison or otherwise in serious trouble.




This argument fell on my CEO's deaf ears, citing the legalistic "terms
of service" that users would be made to agree upon, and he pointed out
in jest that I should not question his business ideas.




And you've already explained this to the CEO.



Your problem isn't how to explain it, your problem is how to get out before the business is shut down.



1) Document everything that is going on. You might need it for future "courtroom" reasons.



2) Get out.



If you want to try explaining it again you can talk about it being illegal and unconstitutional, but imho you're past the point where "the boss doesn't know" and into "he don't care".






share|improve this answer


















  • 96





    Get out as fast as you can. If the boss is ready to break law it means he will break labour law, need to pay you or maybe he already is in violation of some laws.

    – SZCZERZO KŁY
    yesterday






  • 70





    @SZCZERZOKŁY, While I agree with the general suggestion of getting out, "If the boss is ready to break law it means he will break labour law" is overstating things. That is not an inevitable consequence. Just because someone breaks one law doesn't automatically mean they will break every law. For example, the boss may simply be indifferent towards user privacy, or genuinely think that a EULA covers his ass. It doesn't, but don't just assume that this somehow proves that he's knowingly breaking a law in a way that he happily would break any law.

    – Flater
    yesterday







  • 41





    @Zibbobz: Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. I agree that it's likely that this is willful disregard, but it's still possible that you're dealing with someone who genuinely thinks he's in the clear (and is very wrong about that). Also, the sunk cost fallacy is not really relevant here. Just because I speed and get caught, doesn't mean I then contemplate killing the witnesses "because I'm breaking the law anyway". Again, it's possible that this is how the boss operates, but it is in no way a given or inevitable consequence.

    – Flater
    yesterday







  • 8





    @SZCZERZOKŁY: You cannot assume that the boss is willfully and knowingly breaking the constitution. This isn't a matter of what is legal fact (I assume that it is indeed unconstitutional), it's a matter of what the boss' perception of their decision is. The question as posed does not prove that he is genuinely aware that this violates the constitution and knowingly choosing to continue with their decision anyway.

    – Flater
    yesterday







  • 18





    @SZCZERZOKŁY: As a basic example: we are currently disagreeing on something. In the end, one of us is right and the other is not. But just because one of us is wrong, that doesn't mean that this person is intentionally lying. That intent is a very important distinction between lying and being wrong. Similarly, the boss has not been proven to be willfully breaking the law. And even then, he has not been proven to therefore willing break any law he wants. You're building assumptions on top of assumptions and portraying them as an inevitable fact.

    – Flater
    yesterday



















138














Since your boss doesn't care that this is incredibly invasive, warn him that starting on Android Q, to be released later this year, Android will (finally) block apps from recording video and sound while not in the foreground. Therefore, it will be the same situation you have with iOS.



Of course it will take sometime until Android Q has a significant marketshare, but you could ask him if developing a functionality that will be rendered useless in the near future is worth the trouble.



Therefore, you don't need to be "diplomatic". You can show him hard, technical facts.



https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/7/17091104/android-p-prevents-apps-using-mic-camera-idle-background



Disclaimer: I've misread the article. Apparently background recording is already blocked on Android P, the current version, which means there should already be a larger marketshare where this kind of stuff wouldn't work.






share|improve this answer




















  • 9





    IMO quitting isn't a good option because OP states that she would like to continue working in this company. That's why she wants to be diplomatic. By talking strictly from a technical standpoint there won't be any harm, either for the OP, company or the users.

    – GustavoMP
    yesterday






  • 34





    This answers the question ("how can I talk my CEO out of this?") and it doesn't take anything else off the table. +1 from me.

    – Ruther Rendommeleigh
    yesterday






  • 9





    @rkeet That's a better solution iff you don't need to eat

    – Lightness Races in Orbit
    yesterday






  • 11





    @rkeet Alternatively, "hahaha, no, and I quit" does nothing to prevent the boss and company from doing this harmful practice, while "your idea won't work for technical reasons" does. Your solution is basically just "not my problem".

    – Lord Farquaad
    yesterday







  • 6





    @rkeet GustavoMP never suggests that OP break the law. On the contrary, they suggest a course of action that would prevent the CEO from pursuing this idea. Not only will OP not be implicated in anything, but fewer people would be harmed if OP can prevent this immoral behavior from happening in the first place, which is commendable. Further, OP has stated they're "a hardliner about this and I do not want us developing anything close to this feature." OP being complicit is neither a consideration in the question nor in this answer.

    – Lord Farquaad
    yesterday



















61














Since it seems that your CEO is either a bit clueless (at best) or morally bankrupt I don't think you're going to get anywhere with persuading them that this is abhorrent. Especially given they are just casually brushing off such fripperies as it being rather illegal. What you might have some success with is point out some of the myriad ways that this could easily become utterly ruinous for both them and the company.



e.g. If this "feature" captures images/video of an underage person getting changed - congratulations your company is now on the hook for producing, transmitting and storing indecent images of children! Can't see investors flocking to a company with that one on their record.



But I have to say why waste your time? At the end of the day scumbags gonna scumbag and life's too short to waste it working for or being diplomatic to scumbags. I'd honestly just recommend leaving as soon as you have something else to go to and make sure no-one you know ever installs or uses this app or anything else the company produces.






share|improve this answer


















  • 2





    Yeah, maybe go to the police* AFTER you left. *the police might not be the correct authority here...

    – Hobbamok
    yesterday






  • 37





    @Hobbamok Assuming OP is interested in taking legal action, I would suggest speaking to a lawyer before they leave the company. I don't claim to know the best course myself, but a lawyer who specializes in whistle-blowing and who knows the locals laws would. By speaking to such a lawyer beforehand, OP still has all options open - speaking to them after leaving may limit the ability to build a successful case against the company. Again, this is all assuming OP has any interest in taking action at all.

    – Steve-O
    yesterday











  • "Can't see investors flocking to a company with that one on their record." Don't assume every "investor" in a product like this has the same respect for the law as you do.

    – alephzero
    yesterday






  • 3





    @alephzero I wouldn't suggest that nobody would be willing to invest in a company with something like that, but it's going to narrow down the list a fair bit.

    – motosubatsu
    yesterday











  • Wasn't this the exact plot of a 'Silicon Valley' episode? Spoiler: $21 billion in COPPA fines.

    – Marc Bernier
    yesterday


















43














1) Document everything, starting now. You will likely need it.



2) Do not start building this feature. Do not prioritize it, do not write tickets for it, do not task your team with anything to do with it.



3) If management wants to chastise you over dereliction of duty, allow them to do so, and simply ignore everything they say. Document these situations as well.



4) Go as high as you can in the food chain. If your boss won't listen, go to their boss. If their boss won't listen, go to their boss. And so on. What you should explain to them is the worst-case-but-possible scenario that you could get in trouble for. Other answers suggest going the child porn route, and that's not a bad idea, but if you can think of something more dangerous then go for it. I would do something like this:




(to CEO) Hey, John [or however you want to address the CEO], I'm having an issue with this new feature we're developing. I know the purpose of the feature is [explain what product management told you], but I feel like we could get in a lot of trouble for this. For example, what happens if we're recording and we accidentally record an underage child changing their clothes? That gets us in a lot of trouble, not with the customer, but with the police directly. I don't think an EULA handles that use case, because minors can't legally give permission to record pornography of themselves. We should rethink this.




Another way you can come at this is from a user engagement perspective:




Hey John, [...]. Because this feature uses the camera constantly, it will use a lot of battery power. Since it uploads the video to our servers, it also uses a lot of user data. What do you think would happen if our users suddenly see their batteries decreasing rapidly and their data usage spiking, and then find out it's our app that did it? Would you use an app which causes a significant drain on your phone like this? Do you think our users will? What will you tell your investors if user engagement falls off a cliff due to these issues?




See what he says. If this doesn't convince him, then:



5) Make them fire you, or, better, make them force you to quit. Come into work every day and do everything they ask as normal, except do not do this project. Then they have 2 choices: Abandon the project, or fire you and bring in someone who will do the project. In the first case, you win! In the second case, if they fire you then you should contact a lawyer. Bring all the evidence you have concerning the project, the concerns you raised, who you raised them to, everything. Remember, document everything. You likely have a case (IANAL). If they force you to quit, then on top of the above legal case, you may also have a case for constructive dismissal; the tl;dr of Wikipedia is that the definition (IANAL) is when your company makes your life a living hell, but does not fire you, to the point at which you have no choice but to quit.



6) If you get wind of the project being redirected (i.e. your team is removed from it and another team is given the task instead), contact the local authorities ASAP. You likely have protection as a whistleblower. Dump everything you have to the authorities as soon as you can and in as much detail as you can.






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  • 6





    Best answer BY FAR. Several answers say to "document everything." This answer goes into highly specific detail about what to document, and how to actually proceed, and when to go to the authorities. I hope this advice is followed.

    – Wildcard
    yesterday











  • I would say that authorities should be notified now. I'm sure their reaction would be "no crime has been committed since the app hasn't been released" BUT not reporting that a crime is being planned is likely also illegal

    – UKMonkey
    8 hours ago











  • @UKMonkey I'd give the company the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they're not completely insane and can still be reasoned with. I'd only go to the authorities once it's clear this company is dead set on breaking the law.

    – Ertai87
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    He said he's talked to the CEO about it and he doesn't care, so there's nowhere higher to go unless there's a board of directors (not much chance of them listening to a developer). The rest of your answer is good though.

    – nasch
    6 hours ago






  • 1





    @nasch He did say he believes he can still talk some sense into the CEO. I wouldn't go to the authorities until that vein of inquiry has been wiped out. No point in slinging mud at your own company until you're sure they deserve it.

    – Ertai87
    4 hours ago


















11














TLDR: Openly, brazenly start collecting documents that prove you were not a decider in this matter, that you advised management against this feature for privacy reasons, and are simply following orders to retain your good job status. Ask the boss flat-out to give you a letter stating exactly that. This may sober him up.



If that doesn't work, I'd find another company who wants a good team, and take your team with you.



The eavesdropping is a very big deal



Eavesdropping is a criminal charge that varies by state or nationality. Some are "1-party states", where if 1 party in the room gives permission, it's legal.



Most others are "all-party states", meaning everyone being recorded must give permission.



The user doesn't know about your company's eavesdropping, which makes this 0-party; no one in the room is aware. That makes it a crime just about everywhere. What will your criminal defense be? Language buried deep in the EULA? Juries aren't going to accept that because then you would be accusing your customers of breaking the law by not reading the EULA thoroughly enough. Juries, who don't either, will say "no sale".



The feature would send customers through legal hell



But it gets worse. Consider Curtis, your customer, and imagine he's in a civil lawsuit about something totally unrelated. The plaintiff subpoenas from you all the data you have about them. You hand over the eavesdropped content (which makes perfect sense to your boss, since he's such a help-the-police guy). Plaintiff recognizes the eavesdropping, and blows up, assuming Curtis did this.



  • In an all-party state: Curtis is up the creek. This smokes any chance of a settlement, and horribly prejudices the civil case: Curtis loses HARD. Then the judge refers it to the DA for criminal prosecution; Curtis must be punished. The whole time, nobody knows how this happened. All parties assume Curtis did it on purpose. Curtis assumes he accidentally turned on some feature he's unaware of.


  • In a 1-party state, Curtis is safe from legal peril, because he had a right to eavesdrop. But if he says he did it on purpose, he enrages the plaintiff. So he is better off saying the app did this without his permission, which will not be believed. Showing it's true will calm the plaintiff and create a "common enemy".


Both of these end in an interesting problem for you. Curtis's best bet is to prove that you do indeed eavesdrop. He already has subpoena power because of the civil suit. So he'll use it to get the same records about any of plaintiff's staff (turnabout is fair play) -- or better, the judge. Can you imagine the civil court judge looking at photos of himself naked?? The judge will have confidence he did not turn this on. He will say to the D.A. "At first I didn't believe defendant, but the company did it to me too". Curtis is out to save his bacon, not get your company, but to save his bacon he must nail you.




All this to say, getting caught is inevitable. It will be viewed by every US state as your company committing a criminal act for money, and presumably lots of other nations and provinces as well.



It will particularly enrage the EFF, ACLU and privacy organizations, especially if it's uncovered that part of your boss's motivation was to "help law enforcement".



Now, when your company gets caught, I don't know how things work in the Philippines, but it sounds like there'd be an internal scramble to blame the next guy. Your boss would obviously have an advantage there, and would try to sell it as "I had no idea OP and her developers were doing that, send them to jail not me".



Sober up your boss, by covering your tail



So your top job is to cover yourself (CYA) and your team against that possibility. What you want is a "get out of jail free card" that shows management was fully aware of the privacy issues and wanted the project built anyway, and their reasoning. Now, when your boss sees you trying to collect those CYA documents, that's going to sober them up right quick: Why do my subordinates think they need this? The boss may have indulged in fantasy when it comes to the legal implications, now he's thinking. Fair chance you will get a memo saying "drop the feature".




I considered this a final answer, but some are contemplating what happens in a mad world where your boss goes "here you go, here's a letter making me fully responsible for legal consequences".



At this point your "get out of jail free card" would become a Nuremberg defense. Aside from any contemplation of whether Nuremberg bears on complex questions of law, I honestly don't foresee you hanging around to find out. If your boss persists, you've got a great team and I expect you to find better work and take your team with you.






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  • So, do these "get out of jail free cards" actually work? I thought it'd be the responsibility of anybody who sees a crime happening, to at least report it.

    – Sudix
    12 hours ago






  • 1





    This sounds like The Nuremberg Defense, which has questionable legal standing. The only way to get out of this one is to expressly refuse to be a part of it whatsoever, and even that might not be enough, if you had reasonable knowledge that it was going on without you being a direct part of it, but you also failed to do everything within your power to stop it (including contacting law enforcement).

    – Ertai87
    9 hours ago












  • @Ertai87 You do have a point, especially given the jurisdiction. In the US at least, the Nuremberg defense only fails when the crime is obvious: you can't put a foot soldier in a catch-22 between direct orders, and a possible Supreme Court decision, that's why nobody went to jail for interning the Japanese. But in the Philippines, the legal system is a bit more wild-west, and I could foresee them casting blame all the way down the stack. Anyway, I never imagined OP would actually comply.. Edited.

    – Harper
    7 hours ago






  • 1





    @Sudix Edited. I never honestly expected OP would actually comply. I imagine the pursuit of the "get out of jail free card" to sober up the boss and make him consult counsel, a discussion that I expect to end with "OH. Nevermind then."

    – Harper
    7 hours ago












  • -1. OP is in Philippines, and the answer is centered on American legal framework.

    – Neith
    7 hours ago


















5














Slightly different approach than the other (mostly very good) answers.

This answer is an attempt for you to keep your job and not have to write the feature.




the product owner explains to me that while the feature is truly useless, it still has to be made so as to attract investors




My alternative is to approach the company lawyer directly.
You have a legal issue that could sink the whole company that he might understand.



Approach the lawyer like this: (use an innocent / concerned expression)




"Hey [lawyer], I previously had a problem with that video feature - CEO may have mentioned this. But after talking to him I told [product owner] about it he said we had to do it anyway. So I went back to try to figure out how to do it because it looks like everyone is on board with it."




You are just playing the good employee so he will listen closely to what you are saying (instead of just nod and pay half-attention to someone that doesn't want to do what the CEO and the investors want to do).




"One pretty big legal issue occurred to me that I thought I should run by you."

"Because the customer doesn't know about the video, they could be in their home unknowing filming their children while they get dressed. Even if the EULA TOS exempts us from this, if it comes out that we have taken images of naked children and stored them on our servers - wouldn't that be a PR nightmare for both the company and the investors?"

"All it would take is a Mom or Dad using another app while changing a baby... or being in a bathroom with their small child. I don't know how to detect this, so I cannot prevent our storing compromising pictures on our servers.

"That would be a big deal, right? Especially since we aren't telling the parents?"

"There are apps that track how often an infant goes to the bathroom, so it is reasonable."




Best wishes on this.



Hope you will tell us how it comes out in a few weeks.




As an aside... whistle-blower laws in the US only protect you from legal action when you tell the authorities. Tell the press, or anyone else, and you're open to be sued.

I'm not a lawyer, but this information came from a lawyer who was speaking at a conference I attended several years ago.






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  • 1





    Even if you can't talk to the company lawyer yourself, you could insist on having his written opinion on this. This can be an eye opener for people.

    – Benjamin
    18 hours ago



















5














I don't disagree with the answer by Dark Matter, but I wanted to offer you an option that isn't mentioned there.



In many companies there is an ethics officer, whose job is to ensure that the company complies with ethical standards. I'm guessing your company doesn't have one, but future readers of this might try that. Also sometimes contacting the company lawyer is effective. Lawyers have an obligation to uphold the law, and if they know their client is engaging in illegal activity they are much less able to ignore it than other people.



The final option is to gather enough evidence to document what you are being asked to do, and then send it to the authorities. Or the news media. Or both.



It goes without saying that this is a nuclear option. While it is possible to do anonymously (Wikileaks?) there is a pretty good chance you will be at least suspected of being the leaker, and probably fired. Technically you are also exposing confidential information, and there is a chance that you could be pursued in the courts. In my country you would be protected by whistleblower legislation, but I don't imagine the Philippines has that.



So the consequences for you might be severe. Don't take this action unless you are prepared for them. But on the upside you would be exposing a corrupt CEO and possibly a corrupt company, which would be a serious deterrent to other companies who want to do the same thing.






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  • 1





    Contacting the company lawyer might as well be a nuclear option for me; as the lawyer and the CEO are in great terms and was in fact in the meeting with the investors who were enthusiastic about the problematic feature request.

    – Jenny Tengson Mandani
    yesterday






  • 2





    I just wanted to make sure that future readers of this knew about all their options.

    – DJClayworth
    yesterday






  • 1





    FWIW, Manila is The Philippines, not Malaysia. Probably the same deal though.

    – Ertai87
    yesterday






  • 3





    For what it is worth (FWIW) according to a lawyer's presentation I attended a few years ago at a national tech conference... whistle-blower legislation in the US only protects you if you tell appropriate government authorities - there is no protection from those laws if you tell the press or anyone else.

    – J. Chris Compton
    yesterday











  • A lawyer is not obliged to uphold the law, but in some countries lawyers might lose their title if they do not. In practice, the lawyer should advice the company on the legality of e.g. this feature, but that is about it.

    – bjorn
    8 hours ago


















3














Some very powerful and unpleasant people in the past have used technology (for example old fashioned audio tapes) to record meetings secretly. They get the victim to admit to disliking another powerful figure and then use the tapes as a form of blackmail or simply to set opponents against each other, e.g. "This is what X said about you, and I've got the tape to prove it."



It is not impossible that someone has been searching around for a firm willing to produce this sort of software and there might be considerable bribes involved.



You didn't say what the app does. Could it be used for blackmail, or spying for industrial secrets in a certain sphere? Could it be used to predict fluctuations in the financial markets?



I would get out ASAP because if anything like this is going on, it won't be the big players who get prosecuted, it will be the ones at the bottom of the chain.






share|improve this answer
































    3














    I would like to approach a resolution to this issue in a slightly different way. The question was specifically:




    How to be diplomatic in refusing to write code that breaches the privacy of our users




    There are two ways to approach this:



    1. Refuse to write the code

    2. Make the case that this feature will negatively impact the project vision and you feel responsibility to steadfastly object to anything that will derail the project success

    They both result in the same thing -- a refusal to implement the feature -- but the latter approach roots the refusal in the general desire for the app and business success, rather than for the users privacy. User privacy is a means to application success, but vise versa is not necessarily true.



    To do this I would:



    • Seek to establish common ground and good intent

    • Ground any justifications in risks that I deem are important for the CEO

    • Be enthusiastic about the project and the company, but steadfast in the refusal to implement

    i.e. "I am really sorry but I cannot continue with this as it stands."



    For example:




    Dear $CEO,



    I am a member of the software development team working on $APP. I am passionate about $STATED_APPS_PURPOSE and have enjoyed working on $PREVIOUS_NON_CREEPY_THINGS.



    However, I recently learned of this new feature that will require the recording of users at all times through their camera. While I understand the benefits of this feature, including:



    • $CREEPY_BENEFIT_A

    • $CREEPY_BENEFIT_B

    • $INVESTORS_HAPPY_C

    I feel compelled to note that this new feature deviates significantly from $STATED_APPS_PURPOSE. It may be that I have misunderstood the nature of the requirements from this feature, but as the feature has been requested I see significant new project risks introduced, including:



    • User backlash at discovering the unexpected behaviour of the application

    • Potential violations of users privacy law $EXAMPLE in Manilla and within other locales

    • Punitive damages associated with the aforementioned violations of law

    It is my assessment that this feature has deviated enough from $STATED_APPS_PURPOSE that I no longer feel comfortable with the tradeoffs the application has made, and I am thus not a suitable candidate for the ongoing development of this application.



    I am reaching out to you now such that I may understand more the nature of this feature to clarify whether it should be implemented as stated, or whether our project would better grow in other areas.



    Kind regards,
    $YOU.




    Couching a justification in moral grounds that we know and understand are different from our own is an uncomfortable process. However, while it might be easier if our friends and colleagues shared our own values we each arrived in each others company via a different path and arguing a point to a given audience will be much more successful at homogenising the practical outcomes of our values, if not their roots.






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      2














      Ask your CEO whether he will be using the app. Or whether it is possible police or politicians will use the app.



      If so, tell him it is a security risk because all the engineers in the company will be able to spy on him and on others. Maybe it works as a deterrent if he is concerned himself.



      Also make him aware of the commercial risk of doing this: he might lose his entire user base if they find out. Play on his ego, surely he is too smart to take such a risk?



      I'm adding this answer because you explicitly ask for a diplomatic solution. Simply quitting or paper trailing is not necessarily diplomatic.






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        2














        While IT is not as professionalised as many other occupations, there are still professional standards organisations which will provide advice and assistance in these situations. In your instance, you should contact the Philippine Computer Society and notify them you have been instructed to breach their Code of Ethics.






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        • As much as possible I want to solve this problem diplomatically with the CEO without having to insinuate any governing body or NGO that I am having this problem. I've been poring into the documents by the National Privacy Commission and so far it has been helpful.

          – Jenny Tengson Mandani
          20 hours ago


















        2














        If you do not want to make this a fight:



        You know you're making an app that is against Google's rules on privacy (specifically camera use), so please do immediately report it.
        I think it's anonymous, but you can pretend to be a user I guess. I'm sure the same thing can be done for IOS. Act surprised this happened, and then get busy "fixing it" back to how it was.



        This isn't the best way, but is a non-direct way to protect your users, if it proves impossible to kill this idea before development.






        share|improve this answer






























          2














          Did you consider the humorous approach?



          Maybe it's late for this, but your CEO may be overwhelmed with soft-toned legal boilerplate stuff he reads everyday that he is indeed not grasping the gravity of the situation.



          If I was asked to develop a feature that would secretly record video and upload it from users phones, my answer would be something like:



          "For real? We are gonna get SO MANY celebrity nudes! Is FamousPerson in our user base? We are so going to jail... Were is the iCloud hacker serving time again?"



          This is meant to send the "this is illegal" message with a catch phrase, that he's likely to remember.



          Others have given good enough "serious professional answers" but to avoid sounding reckless, here's my version of it: Simply don't do the code, try to get written documents/requests from your boss specifying what is to be developed. Once you do, that is your evidence. If the company is big enough, there should be a compliance channel for this kind of whistle blowing. If company is small, once you get fired you can sue the company.



          As usual a boilerplate text is due here: I am not a lawyer! Seek specialized help instead of relying on what may sound as legal advice form this website!






          share|improve this answer

























          • Sounds like a dangerous advice. The first part suggests to humor with something serious, the other half is giving legal advice while it shouldn't -at least not without a disclaimer.

            – Stelios Adamantidis
            9 hours ago











          • @SteliosAdamantidis : Fair enough, added a disclaimer.

            – Mefitico
            8 hours ago


















          2














          Your boss is ordering you to engage in crime. By proceeding, you will become their accomplice because you will be knowingly engaging in criminal activity.



          So threaten to quit, or otherwise refuse to proceed, but not because you dislike whatever but because they can't possibly pay you enough to compensate several years of your life spent in jail. (Or maybe they can? Provide this as an option -- they will surely refuse to pay such an astronomical sum but this will open their eyes on how inadequate their demands are to what they are paying you. (Note that income from illegal activity will probably be illegal, too, so more trouble for you and the company to conceal it!) The fact that they can't demand of you more than their pay is worth is something they can't argue with.)



          Share the above with your co-workers and they will probably come to the same conclusion.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 1





            His boss cannot pay enough because the courts will happily take away his wages as profit from crime.

            – Joshua
            3 hours ago


















          1














          Presumably the OP has reason to suppose that this app is "intended" to be used illegally, but stepping back from the general feeling of moral outrage in this thread, there is not much evidence (if any) to support that.



          I can't see anything in the OP's post which doesn't fit a use case like "this app converts your cellphone into a dashcam for use in your car". In that situation, battery usage is irrelevant since the phone would be running from the car battery. And dashcams are perfectly legal in many countries (including the UK, for example), and used as police evidence in court, just like images from any other type of security camera. In some countries, the use of dashcams is almost a necessity to support road accident insurance claims and protect oneself against insurance fraud by other people, who may well be criminals themselves.



          Of course the app could be used for illegal purposes as well, but so could many other items which it is perfectly legal to buy an sell - kitchen knives, for example.



          If the OP doesn't want to be involved in this software project for personal reasons, that's a perfectly reasonable position to take, but IMO there is far too little information given here to jump to the conclusion that the whole project, or the project leader, is operating outside of the law.






          share|improve this answer


















          • 9





            Could you provide a reasoning for the app recording "in the background", or the requirement that videos be uploaded? Neither of those make sense for a dashcam. In addition, adding this functionality to an existing app (that I assume had a purpose without it) instead of just making a new app seems rather fishy as well.

            – Ruther Rendommeleigh
            yesterday






          • 2





            @RutherRendommeleigh I agree that adding it to an existing app seems fishy. A good, valid use case I can think of is recording dash-cam video while simultaneously using GPS navigation in a separate app. That said, automatically uploading video to a private server, and not directly telling the user that you're recording, are both very big red flags.

            – Martin Carney
            yesterday







          • 2





            You'll need a different example than dash cam... OP states the new feature would "secretly record its surroundings."

            – J. Chris Compton
            yesterday






          • 2





            Yeah it's the secret part that's the problem. Pretty much any smartphone can overtly record video, and nobody considers that to be an ethical problem because the recording function is only activated when the user selects it. There's nothing wrong with creating a video recording app; there's a problem with creating one that secretly records video.

            – Zach Lipton
            15 hours ago


















          0














          If I were in this situation, I would give the CEO 2 choices, either A he could stop this highly illegal (at least in the USA) project and everything else can go on as normal or B he can accept your letter of resignation and you will be getting a lawyer and reporting his activities to the proper authorities, whom can do what they need to do as soon as he releases this piece of software. It is expected that you may have to do things that you don't want to do for your job, but once the issue crosses the line to illegal, there is no longer any grey space. Personally my job is definitely not worth ruining my life over by spending years in prison or in court battles.






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          • @rkeet, good catch, typo has been corrected.

            – dmoore1181
            12 hours ago


















          -5














          Use your wits and technical superiority to defend yourself and take a stand against the moral corruption of the CEO. Clandestinely record a video of him giving the team instructions to break the law. Edit the video to remove your PII and blur the faces and the voices of the innocent. Retain this recording as a safeguard that you can release to the police, press, and social media at a moments notice. Find another job and never tip your hand and reveal that you have this evidence to anyone unless you need to release it. If you do need to release it, do so anonymously.






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          • 20





            Not going to upvote because what you suggest is illegal and and dangerous, but I can't bring myself to downvote either because it's hilarious.

            – Ruther Rendommeleigh
            yesterday






          • 5





            Depending on the jurisdiction this can bring gigantic problems to the OP.

            – GustavoMP
            yesterday






          • 3





            When facing an adversary that seeks to destroy the fabric of society, it is necessary to take extreme action.

            – Kierkegaardee
            yesterday






          • 9





            Oh, the irony...

            – Alexandre Aubrey
            yesterday






          • 5





            "When facing an adversary that seeks to destroy the fabric of society, it is necessary to take extreme action." Aaaaaaand that's how dictatorships are born. You can't save paradise by destroying it. (Sometimes that means we lose!)

            – Lightness Races in Orbit
            yesterday










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          This of course could place the company under serious fire for invading
          users' privacy when we get found out. In fact, as far as my country's
          laws go, it not only illegal, it is unconstitutional.




          You're being asked to break the law and do things that might land you in prison or otherwise in serious trouble.




          This argument fell on my CEO's deaf ears, citing the legalistic "terms
          of service" that users would be made to agree upon, and he pointed out
          in jest that I should not question his business ideas.




          And you've already explained this to the CEO.



          Your problem isn't how to explain it, your problem is how to get out before the business is shut down.



          1) Document everything that is going on. You might need it for future "courtroom" reasons.



          2) Get out.



          If you want to try explaining it again you can talk about it being illegal and unconstitutional, but imho you're past the point where "the boss doesn't know" and into "he don't care".






          share|improve this answer


















          • 96





            Get out as fast as you can. If the boss is ready to break law it means he will break labour law, need to pay you or maybe he already is in violation of some laws.

            – SZCZERZO KŁY
            yesterday






          • 70





            @SZCZERZOKŁY, While I agree with the general suggestion of getting out, "If the boss is ready to break law it means he will break labour law" is overstating things. That is not an inevitable consequence. Just because someone breaks one law doesn't automatically mean they will break every law. For example, the boss may simply be indifferent towards user privacy, or genuinely think that a EULA covers his ass. It doesn't, but don't just assume that this somehow proves that he's knowingly breaking a law in a way that he happily would break any law.

            – Flater
            yesterday







          • 41





            @Zibbobz: Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. I agree that it's likely that this is willful disregard, but it's still possible that you're dealing with someone who genuinely thinks he's in the clear (and is very wrong about that). Also, the sunk cost fallacy is not really relevant here. Just because I speed and get caught, doesn't mean I then contemplate killing the witnesses "because I'm breaking the law anyway". Again, it's possible that this is how the boss operates, but it is in no way a given or inevitable consequence.

            – Flater
            yesterday







          • 8





            @SZCZERZOKŁY: You cannot assume that the boss is willfully and knowingly breaking the constitution. This isn't a matter of what is legal fact (I assume that it is indeed unconstitutional), it's a matter of what the boss' perception of their decision is. The question as posed does not prove that he is genuinely aware that this violates the constitution and knowingly choosing to continue with their decision anyway.

            – Flater
            yesterday







          • 18





            @SZCZERZOKŁY: As a basic example: we are currently disagreeing on something. In the end, one of us is right and the other is not. But just because one of us is wrong, that doesn't mean that this person is intentionally lying. That intent is a very important distinction between lying and being wrong. Similarly, the boss has not been proven to be willfully breaking the law. And even then, he has not been proven to therefore willing break any law he wants. You're building assumptions on top of assumptions and portraying them as an inevitable fact.

            – Flater
            yesterday
















          225















          This of course could place the company under serious fire for invading
          users' privacy when we get found out. In fact, as far as my country's
          laws go, it not only illegal, it is unconstitutional.




          You're being asked to break the law and do things that might land you in prison or otherwise in serious trouble.




          This argument fell on my CEO's deaf ears, citing the legalistic "terms
          of service" that users would be made to agree upon, and he pointed out
          in jest that I should not question his business ideas.




          And you've already explained this to the CEO.



          Your problem isn't how to explain it, your problem is how to get out before the business is shut down.



          1) Document everything that is going on. You might need it for future "courtroom" reasons.



          2) Get out.



          If you want to try explaining it again you can talk about it being illegal and unconstitutional, but imho you're past the point where "the boss doesn't know" and into "he don't care".






          share|improve this answer


















          • 96





            Get out as fast as you can. If the boss is ready to break law it means he will break labour law, need to pay you or maybe he already is in violation of some laws.

            – SZCZERZO KŁY
            yesterday






          • 70





            @SZCZERZOKŁY, While I agree with the general suggestion of getting out, "If the boss is ready to break law it means he will break labour law" is overstating things. That is not an inevitable consequence. Just because someone breaks one law doesn't automatically mean they will break every law. For example, the boss may simply be indifferent towards user privacy, or genuinely think that a EULA covers his ass. It doesn't, but don't just assume that this somehow proves that he's knowingly breaking a law in a way that he happily would break any law.

            – Flater
            yesterday







          • 41





            @Zibbobz: Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. I agree that it's likely that this is willful disregard, but it's still possible that you're dealing with someone who genuinely thinks he's in the clear (and is very wrong about that). Also, the sunk cost fallacy is not really relevant here. Just because I speed and get caught, doesn't mean I then contemplate killing the witnesses "because I'm breaking the law anyway". Again, it's possible that this is how the boss operates, but it is in no way a given or inevitable consequence.

            – Flater
            yesterday







          • 8





            @SZCZERZOKŁY: You cannot assume that the boss is willfully and knowingly breaking the constitution. This isn't a matter of what is legal fact (I assume that it is indeed unconstitutional), it's a matter of what the boss' perception of their decision is. The question as posed does not prove that he is genuinely aware that this violates the constitution and knowingly choosing to continue with their decision anyway.

            – Flater
            yesterday







          • 18





            @SZCZERZOKŁY: As a basic example: we are currently disagreeing on something. In the end, one of us is right and the other is not. But just because one of us is wrong, that doesn't mean that this person is intentionally lying. That intent is a very important distinction between lying and being wrong. Similarly, the boss has not been proven to be willfully breaking the law. And even then, he has not been proven to therefore willing break any law he wants. You're building assumptions on top of assumptions and portraying them as an inevitable fact.

            – Flater
            yesterday














          225












          225








          225








          This of course could place the company under serious fire for invading
          users' privacy when we get found out. In fact, as far as my country's
          laws go, it not only illegal, it is unconstitutional.




          You're being asked to break the law and do things that might land you in prison or otherwise in serious trouble.




          This argument fell on my CEO's deaf ears, citing the legalistic "terms
          of service" that users would be made to agree upon, and he pointed out
          in jest that I should not question his business ideas.




          And you've already explained this to the CEO.



          Your problem isn't how to explain it, your problem is how to get out before the business is shut down.



          1) Document everything that is going on. You might need it for future "courtroom" reasons.



          2) Get out.



          If you want to try explaining it again you can talk about it being illegal and unconstitutional, but imho you're past the point where "the boss doesn't know" and into "he don't care".






          share|improve this answer














          This of course could place the company under serious fire for invading
          users' privacy when we get found out. In fact, as far as my country's
          laws go, it not only illegal, it is unconstitutional.




          You're being asked to break the law and do things that might land you in prison or otherwise in serious trouble.




          This argument fell on my CEO's deaf ears, citing the legalistic "terms
          of service" that users would be made to agree upon, and he pointed out
          in jest that I should not question his business ideas.




          And you've already explained this to the CEO.



          Your problem isn't how to explain it, your problem is how to get out before the business is shut down.



          1) Document everything that is going on. You might need it for future "courtroom" reasons.



          2) Get out.



          If you want to try explaining it again you can talk about it being illegal and unconstitutional, but imho you're past the point where "the boss doesn't know" and into "he don't care".







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered yesterday









          Dark Matter Dark Matter

          5,54131324




          5,54131324







          • 96





            Get out as fast as you can. If the boss is ready to break law it means he will break labour law, need to pay you or maybe he already is in violation of some laws.

            – SZCZERZO KŁY
            yesterday






          • 70





            @SZCZERZOKŁY, While I agree with the general suggestion of getting out, "If the boss is ready to break law it means he will break labour law" is overstating things. That is not an inevitable consequence. Just because someone breaks one law doesn't automatically mean they will break every law. For example, the boss may simply be indifferent towards user privacy, or genuinely think that a EULA covers his ass. It doesn't, but don't just assume that this somehow proves that he's knowingly breaking a law in a way that he happily would break any law.

            – Flater
            yesterday







          • 41





            @Zibbobz: Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. I agree that it's likely that this is willful disregard, but it's still possible that you're dealing with someone who genuinely thinks he's in the clear (and is very wrong about that). Also, the sunk cost fallacy is not really relevant here. Just because I speed and get caught, doesn't mean I then contemplate killing the witnesses "because I'm breaking the law anyway". Again, it's possible that this is how the boss operates, but it is in no way a given or inevitable consequence.

            – Flater
            yesterday







          • 8





            @SZCZERZOKŁY: You cannot assume that the boss is willfully and knowingly breaking the constitution. This isn't a matter of what is legal fact (I assume that it is indeed unconstitutional), it's a matter of what the boss' perception of their decision is. The question as posed does not prove that he is genuinely aware that this violates the constitution and knowingly choosing to continue with their decision anyway.

            – Flater
            yesterday







          • 18





            @SZCZERZOKŁY: As a basic example: we are currently disagreeing on something. In the end, one of us is right and the other is not. But just because one of us is wrong, that doesn't mean that this person is intentionally lying. That intent is a very important distinction between lying and being wrong. Similarly, the boss has not been proven to be willfully breaking the law. And even then, he has not been proven to therefore willing break any law he wants. You're building assumptions on top of assumptions and portraying them as an inevitable fact.

            – Flater
            yesterday













          • 96





            Get out as fast as you can. If the boss is ready to break law it means he will break labour law, need to pay you or maybe he already is in violation of some laws.

            – SZCZERZO KŁY
            yesterday






          • 70





            @SZCZERZOKŁY, While I agree with the general suggestion of getting out, "If the boss is ready to break law it means he will break labour law" is overstating things. That is not an inevitable consequence. Just because someone breaks one law doesn't automatically mean they will break every law. For example, the boss may simply be indifferent towards user privacy, or genuinely think that a EULA covers his ass. It doesn't, but don't just assume that this somehow proves that he's knowingly breaking a law in a way that he happily would break any law.

            – Flater
            yesterday







          • 41





            @Zibbobz: Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. I agree that it's likely that this is willful disregard, but it's still possible that you're dealing with someone who genuinely thinks he's in the clear (and is very wrong about that). Also, the sunk cost fallacy is not really relevant here. Just because I speed and get caught, doesn't mean I then contemplate killing the witnesses "because I'm breaking the law anyway". Again, it's possible that this is how the boss operates, but it is in no way a given or inevitable consequence.

            – Flater
            yesterday







          • 8





            @SZCZERZOKŁY: You cannot assume that the boss is willfully and knowingly breaking the constitution. This isn't a matter of what is legal fact (I assume that it is indeed unconstitutional), it's a matter of what the boss' perception of their decision is. The question as posed does not prove that he is genuinely aware that this violates the constitution and knowingly choosing to continue with their decision anyway.

            – Flater
            yesterday







          • 18





            @SZCZERZOKŁY: As a basic example: we are currently disagreeing on something. In the end, one of us is right and the other is not. But just because one of us is wrong, that doesn't mean that this person is intentionally lying. That intent is a very important distinction between lying and being wrong. Similarly, the boss has not been proven to be willfully breaking the law. And even then, he has not been proven to therefore willing break any law he wants. You're building assumptions on top of assumptions and portraying them as an inevitable fact.

            – Flater
            yesterday








          96




          96





          Get out as fast as you can. If the boss is ready to break law it means he will break labour law, need to pay you or maybe he already is in violation of some laws.

          – SZCZERZO KŁY
          yesterday





          Get out as fast as you can. If the boss is ready to break law it means he will break labour law, need to pay you or maybe he already is in violation of some laws.

          – SZCZERZO KŁY
          yesterday




          70




          70





          @SZCZERZOKŁY, While I agree with the general suggestion of getting out, "If the boss is ready to break law it means he will break labour law" is overstating things. That is not an inevitable consequence. Just because someone breaks one law doesn't automatically mean they will break every law. For example, the boss may simply be indifferent towards user privacy, or genuinely think that a EULA covers his ass. It doesn't, but don't just assume that this somehow proves that he's knowingly breaking a law in a way that he happily would break any law.

          – Flater
          yesterday






          @SZCZERZOKŁY, While I agree with the general suggestion of getting out, "If the boss is ready to break law it means he will break labour law" is overstating things. That is not an inevitable consequence. Just because someone breaks one law doesn't automatically mean they will break every law. For example, the boss may simply be indifferent towards user privacy, or genuinely think that a EULA covers his ass. It doesn't, but don't just assume that this somehow proves that he's knowingly breaking a law in a way that he happily would break any law.

          – Flater
          yesterday





          41




          41





          @Zibbobz: Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. I agree that it's likely that this is willful disregard, but it's still possible that you're dealing with someone who genuinely thinks he's in the clear (and is very wrong about that). Also, the sunk cost fallacy is not really relevant here. Just because I speed and get caught, doesn't mean I then contemplate killing the witnesses "because I'm breaking the law anyway". Again, it's possible that this is how the boss operates, but it is in no way a given or inevitable consequence.

          – Flater
          yesterday






          @Zibbobz: Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. I agree that it's likely that this is willful disregard, but it's still possible that you're dealing with someone who genuinely thinks he's in the clear (and is very wrong about that). Also, the sunk cost fallacy is not really relevant here. Just because I speed and get caught, doesn't mean I then contemplate killing the witnesses "because I'm breaking the law anyway". Again, it's possible that this is how the boss operates, but it is in no way a given or inevitable consequence.

          – Flater
          yesterday





          8




          8





          @SZCZERZOKŁY: You cannot assume that the boss is willfully and knowingly breaking the constitution. This isn't a matter of what is legal fact (I assume that it is indeed unconstitutional), it's a matter of what the boss' perception of their decision is. The question as posed does not prove that he is genuinely aware that this violates the constitution and knowingly choosing to continue with their decision anyway.

          – Flater
          yesterday






          @SZCZERZOKŁY: You cannot assume that the boss is willfully and knowingly breaking the constitution. This isn't a matter of what is legal fact (I assume that it is indeed unconstitutional), it's a matter of what the boss' perception of their decision is. The question as posed does not prove that he is genuinely aware that this violates the constitution and knowingly choosing to continue with their decision anyway.

          – Flater
          yesterday





          18




          18





          @SZCZERZOKŁY: As a basic example: we are currently disagreeing on something. In the end, one of us is right and the other is not. But just because one of us is wrong, that doesn't mean that this person is intentionally lying. That intent is a very important distinction between lying and being wrong. Similarly, the boss has not been proven to be willfully breaking the law. And even then, he has not been proven to therefore willing break any law he wants. You're building assumptions on top of assumptions and portraying them as an inevitable fact.

          – Flater
          yesterday






          @SZCZERZOKŁY: As a basic example: we are currently disagreeing on something. In the end, one of us is right and the other is not. But just because one of us is wrong, that doesn't mean that this person is intentionally lying. That intent is a very important distinction between lying and being wrong. Similarly, the boss has not been proven to be willfully breaking the law. And even then, he has not been proven to therefore willing break any law he wants. You're building assumptions on top of assumptions and portraying them as an inevitable fact.

          – Flater
          yesterday














          138














          Since your boss doesn't care that this is incredibly invasive, warn him that starting on Android Q, to be released later this year, Android will (finally) block apps from recording video and sound while not in the foreground. Therefore, it will be the same situation you have with iOS.



          Of course it will take sometime until Android Q has a significant marketshare, but you could ask him if developing a functionality that will be rendered useless in the near future is worth the trouble.



          Therefore, you don't need to be "diplomatic". You can show him hard, technical facts.



          https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/7/17091104/android-p-prevents-apps-using-mic-camera-idle-background



          Disclaimer: I've misread the article. Apparently background recording is already blocked on Android P, the current version, which means there should already be a larger marketshare where this kind of stuff wouldn't work.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 9





            IMO quitting isn't a good option because OP states that she would like to continue working in this company. That's why she wants to be diplomatic. By talking strictly from a technical standpoint there won't be any harm, either for the OP, company or the users.

            – GustavoMP
            yesterday






          • 34





            This answers the question ("how can I talk my CEO out of this?") and it doesn't take anything else off the table. +1 from me.

            – Ruther Rendommeleigh
            yesterday






          • 9





            @rkeet That's a better solution iff you don't need to eat

            – Lightness Races in Orbit
            yesterday






          • 11





            @rkeet Alternatively, "hahaha, no, and I quit" does nothing to prevent the boss and company from doing this harmful practice, while "your idea won't work for technical reasons" does. Your solution is basically just "not my problem".

            – Lord Farquaad
            yesterday







          • 6





            @rkeet GustavoMP never suggests that OP break the law. On the contrary, they suggest a course of action that would prevent the CEO from pursuing this idea. Not only will OP not be implicated in anything, but fewer people would be harmed if OP can prevent this immoral behavior from happening in the first place, which is commendable. Further, OP has stated they're "a hardliner about this and I do not want us developing anything close to this feature." OP being complicit is neither a consideration in the question nor in this answer.

            – Lord Farquaad
            yesterday
















          138














          Since your boss doesn't care that this is incredibly invasive, warn him that starting on Android Q, to be released later this year, Android will (finally) block apps from recording video and sound while not in the foreground. Therefore, it will be the same situation you have with iOS.



          Of course it will take sometime until Android Q has a significant marketshare, but you could ask him if developing a functionality that will be rendered useless in the near future is worth the trouble.



          Therefore, you don't need to be "diplomatic". You can show him hard, technical facts.



          https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/7/17091104/android-p-prevents-apps-using-mic-camera-idle-background



          Disclaimer: I've misread the article. Apparently background recording is already blocked on Android P, the current version, which means there should already be a larger marketshare where this kind of stuff wouldn't work.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 9





            IMO quitting isn't a good option because OP states that she would like to continue working in this company. That's why she wants to be diplomatic. By talking strictly from a technical standpoint there won't be any harm, either for the OP, company or the users.

            – GustavoMP
            yesterday






          • 34





            This answers the question ("how can I talk my CEO out of this?") and it doesn't take anything else off the table. +1 from me.

            – Ruther Rendommeleigh
            yesterday






          • 9





            @rkeet That's a better solution iff you don't need to eat

            – Lightness Races in Orbit
            yesterday






          • 11





            @rkeet Alternatively, "hahaha, no, and I quit" does nothing to prevent the boss and company from doing this harmful practice, while "your idea won't work for technical reasons" does. Your solution is basically just "not my problem".

            – Lord Farquaad
            yesterday







          • 6





            @rkeet GustavoMP never suggests that OP break the law. On the contrary, they suggest a course of action that would prevent the CEO from pursuing this idea. Not only will OP not be implicated in anything, but fewer people would be harmed if OP can prevent this immoral behavior from happening in the first place, which is commendable. Further, OP has stated they're "a hardliner about this and I do not want us developing anything close to this feature." OP being complicit is neither a consideration in the question nor in this answer.

            – Lord Farquaad
            yesterday














          138












          138








          138







          Since your boss doesn't care that this is incredibly invasive, warn him that starting on Android Q, to be released later this year, Android will (finally) block apps from recording video and sound while not in the foreground. Therefore, it will be the same situation you have with iOS.



          Of course it will take sometime until Android Q has a significant marketshare, but you could ask him if developing a functionality that will be rendered useless in the near future is worth the trouble.



          Therefore, you don't need to be "diplomatic". You can show him hard, technical facts.



          https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/7/17091104/android-p-prevents-apps-using-mic-camera-idle-background



          Disclaimer: I've misread the article. Apparently background recording is already blocked on Android P, the current version, which means there should already be a larger marketshare where this kind of stuff wouldn't work.






          share|improve this answer















          Since your boss doesn't care that this is incredibly invasive, warn him that starting on Android Q, to be released later this year, Android will (finally) block apps from recording video and sound while not in the foreground. Therefore, it will be the same situation you have with iOS.



          Of course it will take sometime until Android Q has a significant marketshare, but you could ask him if developing a functionality that will be rendered useless in the near future is worth the trouble.



          Therefore, you don't need to be "diplomatic". You can show him hard, technical facts.



          https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/7/17091104/android-p-prevents-apps-using-mic-camera-idle-background



          Disclaimer: I've misread the article. Apparently background recording is already blocked on Android P, the current version, which means there should already be a larger marketshare where this kind of stuff wouldn't work.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited yesterday

























          answered yesterday









          GustavoMPGustavoMP

          2,90541218




          2,90541218







          • 9





            IMO quitting isn't a good option because OP states that she would like to continue working in this company. That's why she wants to be diplomatic. By talking strictly from a technical standpoint there won't be any harm, either for the OP, company or the users.

            – GustavoMP
            yesterday






          • 34





            This answers the question ("how can I talk my CEO out of this?") and it doesn't take anything else off the table. +1 from me.

            – Ruther Rendommeleigh
            yesterday






          • 9





            @rkeet That's a better solution iff you don't need to eat

            – Lightness Races in Orbit
            yesterday






          • 11





            @rkeet Alternatively, "hahaha, no, and I quit" does nothing to prevent the boss and company from doing this harmful practice, while "your idea won't work for technical reasons" does. Your solution is basically just "not my problem".

            – Lord Farquaad
            yesterday







          • 6





            @rkeet GustavoMP never suggests that OP break the law. On the contrary, they suggest a course of action that would prevent the CEO from pursuing this idea. Not only will OP not be implicated in anything, but fewer people would be harmed if OP can prevent this immoral behavior from happening in the first place, which is commendable. Further, OP has stated they're "a hardliner about this and I do not want us developing anything close to this feature." OP being complicit is neither a consideration in the question nor in this answer.

            – Lord Farquaad
            yesterday













          • 9





            IMO quitting isn't a good option because OP states that she would like to continue working in this company. That's why she wants to be diplomatic. By talking strictly from a technical standpoint there won't be any harm, either for the OP, company or the users.

            – GustavoMP
            yesterday






          • 34





            This answers the question ("how can I talk my CEO out of this?") and it doesn't take anything else off the table. +1 from me.

            – Ruther Rendommeleigh
            yesterday






          • 9





            @rkeet That's a better solution iff you don't need to eat

            – Lightness Races in Orbit
            yesterday






          • 11





            @rkeet Alternatively, "hahaha, no, and I quit" does nothing to prevent the boss and company from doing this harmful practice, while "your idea won't work for technical reasons" does. Your solution is basically just "not my problem".

            – Lord Farquaad
            yesterday







          • 6





            @rkeet GustavoMP never suggests that OP break the law. On the contrary, they suggest a course of action that would prevent the CEO from pursuing this idea. Not only will OP not be implicated in anything, but fewer people would be harmed if OP can prevent this immoral behavior from happening in the first place, which is commendable. Further, OP has stated they're "a hardliner about this and I do not want us developing anything close to this feature." OP being complicit is neither a consideration in the question nor in this answer.

            – Lord Farquaad
            yesterday








          9




          9





          IMO quitting isn't a good option because OP states that she would like to continue working in this company. That's why she wants to be diplomatic. By talking strictly from a technical standpoint there won't be any harm, either for the OP, company or the users.

          – GustavoMP
          yesterday





          IMO quitting isn't a good option because OP states that she would like to continue working in this company. That's why she wants to be diplomatic. By talking strictly from a technical standpoint there won't be any harm, either for the OP, company or the users.

          – GustavoMP
          yesterday




          34




          34





          This answers the question ("how can I talk my CEO out of this?") and it doesn't take anything else off the table. +1 from me.

          – Ruther Rendommeleigh
          yesterday





          This answers the question ("how can I talk my CEO out of this?") and it doesn't take anything else off the table. +1 from me.

          – Ruther Rendommeleigh
          yesterday




          9




          9





          @rkeet That's a better solution iff you don't need to eat

          – Lightness Races in Orbit
          yesterday





          @rkeet That's a better solution iff you don't need to eat

          – Lightness Races in Orbit
          yesterday




          11




          11





          @rkeet Alternatively, "hahaha, no, and I quit" does nothing to prevent the boss and company from doing this harmful practice, while "your idea won't work for technical reasons" does. Your solution is basically just "not my problem".

          – Lord Farquaad
          yesterday






          @rkeet Alternatively, "hahaha, no, and I quit" does nothing to prevent the boss and company from doing this harmful practice, while "your idea won't work for technical reasons" does. Your solution is basically just "not my problem".

          – Lord Farquaad
          yesterday





          6




          6





          @rkeet GustavoMP never suggests that OP break the law. On the contrary, they suggest a course of action that would prevent the CEO from pursuing this idea. Not only will OP not be implicated in anything, but fewer people would be harmed if OP can prevent this immoral behavior from happening in the first place, which is commendable. Further, OP has stated they're "a hardliner about this and I do not want us developing anything close to this feature." OP being complicit is neither a consideration in the question nor in this answer.

          – Lord Farquaad
          yesterday






          @rkeet GustavoMP never suggests that OP break the law. On the contrary, they suggest a course of action that would prevent the CEO from pursuing this idea. Not only will OP not be implicated in anything, but fewer people would be harmed if OP can prevent this immoral behavior from happening in the first place, which is commendable. Further, OP has stated they're "a hardliner about this and I do not want us developing anything close to this feature." OP being complicit is neither a consideration in the question nor in this answer.

          – Lord Farquaad
          yesterday












          61














          Since it seems that your CEO is either a bit clueless (at best) or morally bankrupt I don't think you're going to get anywhere with persuading them that this is abhorrent. Especially given they are just casually brushing off such fripperies as it being rather illegal. What you might have some success with is point out some of the myriad ways that this could easily become utterly ruinous for both them and the company.



          e.g. If this "feature" captures images/video of an underage person getting changed - congratulations your company is now on the hook for producing, transmitting and storing indecent images of children! Can't see investors flocking to a company with that one on their record.



          But I have to say why waste your time? At the end of the day scumbags gonna scumbag and life's too short to waste it working for or being diplomatic to scumbags. I'd honestly just recommend leaving as soon as you have something else to go to and make sure no-one you know ever installs or uses this app or anything else the company produces.






          share|improve this answer


















          • 2





            Yeah, maybe go to the police* AFTER you left. *the police might not be the correct authority here...

            – Hobbamok
            yesterday






          • 37





            @Hobbamok Assuming OP is interested in taking legal action, I would suggest speaking to a lawyer before they leave the company. I don't claim to know the best course myself, but a lawyer who specializes in whistle-blowing and who knows the locals laws would. By speaking to such a lawyer beforehand, OP still has all options open - speaking to them after leaving may limit the ability to build a successful case against the company. Again, this is all assuming OP has any interest in taking action at all.

            – Steve-O
            yesterday











          • "Can't see investors flocking to a company with that one on their record." Don't assume every "investor" in a product like this has the same respect for the law as you do.

            – alephzero
            yesterday






          • 3





            @alephzero I wouldn't suggest that nobody would be willing to invest in a company with something like that, but it's going to narrow down the list a fair bit.

            – motosubatsu
            yesterday











          • Wasn't this the exact plot of a 'Silicon Valley' episode? Spoiler: $21 billion in COPPA fines.

            – Marc Bernier
            yesterday















          61














          Since it seems that your CEO is either a bit clueless (at best) or morally bankrupt I don't think you're going to get anywhere with persuading them that this is abhorrent. Especially given they are just casually brushing off such fripperies as it being rather illegal. What you might have some success with is point out some of the myriad ways that this could easily become utterly ruinous for both them and the company.



          e.g. If this "feature" captures images/video of an underage person getting changed - congratulations your company is now on the hook for producing, transmitting and storing indecent images of children! Can't see investors flocking to a company with that one on their record.



          But I have to say why waste your time? At the end of the day scumbags gonna scumbag and life's too short to waste it working for or being diplomatic to scumbags. I'd honestly just recommend leaving as soon as you have something else to go to and make sure no-one you know ever installs or uses this app or anything else the company produces.






          share|improve this answer


















          • 2





            Yeah, maybe go to the police* AFTER you left. *the police might not be the correct authority here...

            – Hobbamok
            yesterday






          • 37





            @Hobbamok Assuming OP is interested in taking legal action, I would suggest speaking to a lawyer before they leave the company. I don't claim to know the best course myself, but a lawyer who specializes in whistle-blowing and who knows the locals laws would. By speaking to such a lawyer beforehand, OP still has all options open - speaking to them after leaving may limit the ability to build a successful case against the company. Again, this is all assuming OP has any interest in taking action at all.

            – Steve-O
            yesterday











          • "Can't see investors flocking to a company with that one on their record." Don't assume every "investor" in a product like this has the same respect for the law as you do.

            – alephzero
            yesterday






          • 3





            @alephzero I wouldn't suggest that nobody would be willing to invest in a company with something like that, but it's going to narrow down the list a fair bit.

            – motosubatsu
            yesterday











          • Wasn't this the exact plot of a 'Silicon Valley' episode? Spoiler: $21 billion in COPPA fines.

            – Marc Bernier
            yesterday













          61












          61








          61







          Since it seems that your CEO is either a bit clueless (at best) or morally bankrupt I don't think you're going to get anywhere with persuading them that this is abhorrent. Especially given they are just casually brushing off such fripperies as it being rather illegal. What you might have some success with is point out some of the myriad ways that this could easily become utterly ruinous for both them and the company.



          e.g. If this "feature" captures images/video of an underage person getting changed - congratulations your company is now on the hook for producing, transmitting and storing indecent images of children! Can't see investors flocking to a company with that one on their record.



          But I have to say why waste your time? At the end of the day scumbags gonna scumbag and life's too short to waste it working for or being diplomatic to scumbags. I'd honestly just recommend leaving as soon as you have something else to go to and make sure no-one you know ever installs or uses this app or anything else the company produces.






          share|improve this answer













          Since it seems that your CEO is either a bit clueless (at best) or morally bankrupt I don't think you're going to get anywhere with persuading them that this is abhorrent. Especially given they are just casually brushing off such fripperies as it being rather illegal. What you might have some success with is point out some of the myriad ways that this could easily become utterly ruinous for both them and the company.



          e.g. If this "feature" captures images/video of an underage person getting changed - congratulations your company is now on the hook for producing, transmitting and storing indecent images of children! Can't see investors flocking to a company with that one on their record.



          But I have to say why waste your time? At the end of the day scumbags gonna scumbag and life's too short to waste it working for or being diplomatic to scumbags. I'd honestly just recommend leaving as soon as you have something else to go to and make sure no-one you know ever installs or uses this app or anything else the company produces.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered yesterday









          motosubatsumotosubatsu

          51.7k27139206




          51.7k27139206







          • 2





            Yeah, maybe go to the police* AFTER you left. *the police might not be the correct authority here...

            – Hobbamok
            yesterday






          • 37





            @Hobbamok Assuming OP is interested in taking legal action, I would suggest speaking to a lawyer before they leave the company. I don't claim to know the best course myself, but a lawyer who specializes in whistle-blowing and who knows the locals laws would. By speaking to such a lawyer beforehand, OP still has all options open - speaking to them after leaving may limit the ability to build a successful case against the company. Again, this is all assuming OP has any interest in taking action at all.

            – Steve-O
            yesterday











          • "Can't see investors flocking to a company with that one on their record." Don't assume every "investor" in a product like this has the same respect for the law as you do.

            – alephzero
            yesterday






          • 3





            @alephzero I wouldn't suggest that nobody would be willing to invest in a company with something like that, but it's going to narrow down the list a fair bit.

            – motosubatsu
            yesterday











          • Wasn't this the exact plot of a 'Silicon Valley' episode? Spoiler: $21 billion in COPPA fines.

            – Marc Bernier
            yesterday












          • 2





            Yeah, maybe go to the police* AFTER you left. *the police might not be the correct authority here...

            – Hobbamok
            yesterday






          • 37





            @Hobbamok Assuming OP is interested in taking legal action, I would suggest speaking to a lawyer before they leave the company. I don't claim to know the best course myself, but a lawyer who specializes in whistle-blowing and who knows the locals laws would. By speaking to such a lawyer beforehand, OP still has all options open - speaking to them after leaving may limit the ability to build a successful case against the company. Again, this is all assuming OP has any interest in taking action at all.

            – Steve-O
            yesterday











          • "Can't see investors flocking to a company with that one on their record." Don't assume every "investor" in a product like this has the same respect for the law as you do.

            – alephzero
            yesterday






          • 3





            @alephzero I wouldn't suggest that nobody would be willing to invest in a company with something like that, but it's going to narrow down the list a fair bit.

            – motosubatsu
            yesterday











          • Wasn't this the exact plot of a 'Silicon Valley' episode? Spoiler: $21 billion in COPPA fines.

            – Marc Bernier
            yesterday







          2




          2





          Yeah, maybe go to the police* AFTER you left. *the police might not be the correct authority here...

          – Hobbamok
          yesterday





          Yeah, maybe go to the police* AFTER you left. *the police might not be the correct authority here...

          – Hobbamok
          yesterday




          37




          37





          @Hobbamok Assuming OP is interested in taking legal action, I would suggest speaking to a lawyer before they leave the company. I don't claim to know the best course myself, but a lawyer who specializes in whistle-blowing and who knows the locals laws would. By speaking to such a lawyer beforehand, OP still has all options open - speaking to them after leaving may limit the ability to build a successful case against the company. Again, this is all assuming OP has any interest in taking action at all.

          – Steve-O
          yesterday





          @Hobbamok Assuming OP is interested in taking legal action, I would suggest speaking to a lawyer before they leave the company. I don't claim to know the best course myself, but a lawyer who specializes in whistle-blowing and who knows the locals laws would. By speaking to such a lawyer beforehand, OP still has all options open - speaking to them after leaving may limit the ability to build a successful case against the company. Again, this is all assuming OP has any interest in taking action at all.

          – Steve-O
          yesterday













          "Can't see investors flocking to a company with that one on their record." Don't assume every "investor" in a product like this has the same respect for the law as you do.

          – alephzero
          yesterday





          "Can't see investors flocking to a company with that one on their record." Don't assume every "investor" in a product like this has the same respect for the law as you do.

          – alephzero
          yesterday




          3




          3





          @alephzero I wouldn't suggest that nobody would be willing to invest in a company with something like that, but it's going to narrow down the list a fair bit.

          – motosubatsu
          yesterday





          @alephzero I wouldn't suggest that nobody would be willing to invest in a company with something like that, but it's going to narrow down the list a fair bit.

          – motosubatsu
          yesterday













          Wasn't this the exact plot of a 'Silicon Valley' episode? Spoiler: $21 billion in COPPA fines.

          – Marc Bernier
          yesterday





          Wasn't this the exact plot of a 'Silicon Valley' episode? Spoiler: $21 billion in COPPA fines.

          – Marc Bernier
          yesterday











          43














          1) Document everything, starting now. You will likely need it.



          2) Do not start building this feature. Do not prioritize it, do not write tickets for it, do not task your team with anything to do with it.



          3) If management wants to chastise you over dereliction of duty, allow them to do so, and simply ignore everything they say. Document these situations as well.



          4) Go as high as you can in the food chain. If your boss won't listen, go to their boss. If their boss won't listen, go to their boss. And so on. What you should explain to them is the worst-case-but-possible scenario that you could get in trouble for. Other answers suggest going the child porn route, and that's not a bad idea, but if you can think of something more dangerous then go for it. I would do something like this:




          (to CEO) Hey, John [or however you want to address the CEO], I'm having an issue with this new feature we're developing. I know the purpose of the feature is [explain what product management told you], but I feel like we could get in a lot of trouble for this. For example, what happens if we're recording and we accidentally record an underage child changing their clothes? That gets us in a lot of trouble, not with the customer, but with the police directly. I don't think an EULA handles that use case, because minors can't legally give permission to record pornography of themselves. We should rethink this.




          Another way you can come at this is from a user engagement perspective:




          Hey John, [...]. Because this feature uses the camera constantly, it will use a lot of battery power. Since it uploads the video to our servers, it also uses a lot of user data. What do you think would happen if our users suddenly see their batteries decreasing rapidly and their data usage spiking, and then find out it's our app that did it? Would you use an app which causes a significant drain on your phone like this? Do you think our users will? What will you tell your investors if user engagement falls off a cliff due to these issues?




          See what he says. If this doesn't convince him, then:



          5) Make them fire you, or, better, make them force you to quit. Come into work every day and do everything they ask as normal, except do not do this project. Then they have 2 choices: Abandon the project, or fire you and bring in someone who will do the project. In the first case, you win! In the second case, if they fire you then you should contact a lawyer. Bring all the evidence you have concerning the project, the concerns you raised, who you raised them to, everything. Remember, document everything. You likely have a case (IANAL). If they force you to quit, then on top of the above legal case, you may also have a case for constructive dismissal; the tl;dr of Wikipedia is that the definition (IANAL) is when your company makes your life a living hell, but does not fire you, to the point at which you have no choice but to quit.



          6) If you get wind of the project being redirected (i.e. your team is removed from it and another team is given the task instead), contact the local authorities ASAP. You likely have protection as a whistleblower. Dump everything you have to the authorities as soon as you can and in as much detail as you can.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 6





            Best answer BY FAR. Several answers say to "document everything." This answer goes into highly specific detail about what to document, and how to actually proceed, and when to go to the authorities. I hope this advice is followed.

            – Wildcard
            yesterday











          • I would say that authorities should be notified now. I'm sure their reaction would be "no crime has been committed since the app hasn't been released" BUT not reporting that a crime is being planned is likely also illegal

            – UKMonkey
            8 hours ago











          • @UKMonkey I'd give the company the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they're not completely insane and can still be reasoned with. I'd only go to the authorities once it's clear this company is dead set on breaking the law.

            – Ertai87
            8 hours ago






          • 1





            He said he's talked to the CEO about it and he doesn't care, so there's nowhere higher to go unless there's a board of directors (not much chance of them listening to a developer). The rest of your answer is good though.

            – nasch
            6 hours ago






          • 1





            @nasch He did say he believes he can still talk some sense into the CEO. I wouldn't go to the authorities until that vein of inquiry has been wiped out. No point in slinging mud at your own company until you're sure they deserve it.

            – Ertai87
            4 hours ago















          43














          1) Document everything, starting now. You will likely need it.



          2) Do not start building this feature. Do not prioritize it, do not write tickets for it, do not task your team with anything to do with it.



          3) If management wants to chastise you over dereliction of duty, allow them to do so, and simply ignore everything they say. Document these situations as well.



          4) Go as high as you can in the food chain. If your boss won't listen, go to their boss. If their boss won't listen, go to their boss. And so on. What you should explain to them is the worst-case-but-possible scenario that you could get in trouble for. Other answers suggest going the child porn route, and that's not a bad idea, but if you can think of something more dangerous then go for it. I would do something like this:




          (to CEO) Hey, John [or however you want to address the CEO], I'm having an issue with this new feature we're developing. I know the purpose of the feature is [explain what product management told you], but I feel like we could get in a lot of trouble for this. For example, what happens if we're recording and we accidentally record an underage child changing their clothes? That gets us in a lot of trouble, not with the customer, but with the police directly. I don't think an EULA handles that use case, because minors can't legally give permission to record pornography of themselves. We should rethink this.




          Another way you can come at this is from a user engagement perspective:




          Hey John, [...]. Because this feature uses the camera constantly, it will use a lot of battery power. Since it uploads the video to our servers, it also uses a lot of user data. What do you think would happen if our users suddenly see their batteries decreasing rapidly and their data usage spiking, and then find out it's our app that did it? Would you use an app which causes a significant drain on your phone like this? Do you think our users will? What will you tell your investors if user engagement falls off a cliff due to these issues?




          See what he says. If this doesn't convince him, then:



          5) Make them fire you, or, better, make them force you to quit. Come into work every day and do everything they ask as normal, except do not do this project. Then they have 2 choices: Abandon the project, or fire you and bring in someone who will do the project. In the first case, you win! In the second case, if they fire you then you should contact a lawyer. Bring all the evidence you have concerning the project, the concerns you raised, who you raised them to, everything. Remember, document everything. You likely have a case (IANAL). If they force you to quit, then on top of the above legal case, you may also have a case for constructive dismissal; the tl;dr of Wikipedia is that the definition (IANAL) is when your company makes your life a living hell, but does not fire you, to the point at which you have no choice but to quit.



          6) If you get wind of the project being redirected (i.e. your team is removed from it and another team is given the task instead), contact the local authorities ASAP. You likely have protection as a whistleblower. Dump everything you have to the authorities as soon as you can and in as much detail as you can.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 6





            Best answer BY FAR. Several answers say to "document everything." This answer goes into highly specific detail about what to document, and how to actually proceed, and when to go to the authorities. I hope this advice is followed.

            – Wildcard
            yesterday











          • I would say that authorities should be notified now. I'm sure their reaction would be "no crime has been committed since the app hasn't been released" BUT not reporting that a crime is being planned is likely also illegal

            – UKMonkey
            8 hours ago











          • @UKMonkey I'd give the company the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they're not completely insane and can still be reasoned with. I'd only go to the authorities once it's clear this company is dead set on breaking the law.

            – Ertai87
            8 hours ago






          • 1





            He said he's talked to the CEO about it and he doesn't care, so there's nowhere higher to go unless there's a board of directors (not much chance of them listening to a developer). The rest of your answer is good though.

            – nasch
            6 hours ago






          • 1





            @nasch He did say he believes he can still talk some sense into the CEO. I wouldn't go to the authorities until that vein of inquiry has been wiped out. No point in slinging mud at your own company until you're sure they deserve it.

            – Ertai87
            4 hours ago













          43












          43








          43







          1) Document everything, starting now. You will likely need it.



          2) Do not start building this feature. Do not prioritize it, do not write tickets for it, do not task your team with anything to do with it.



          3) If management wants to chastise you over dereliction of duty, allow them to do so, and simply ignore everything they say. Document these situations as well.



          4) Go as high as you can in the food chain. If your boss won't listen, go to their boss. If their boss won't listen, go to their boss. And so on. What you should explain to them is the worst-case-but-possible scenario that you could get in trouble for. Other answers suggest going the child porn route, and that's not a bad idea, but if you can think of something more dangerous then go for it. I would do something like this:




          (to CEO) Hey, John [or however you want to address the CEO], I'm having an issue with this new feature we're developing. I know the purpose of the feature is [explain what product management told you], but I feel like we could get in a lot of trouble for this. For example, what happens if we're recording and we accidentally record an underage child changing their clothes? That gets us in a lot of trouble, not with the customer, but with the police directly. I don't think an EULA handles that use case, because minors can't legally give permission to record pornography of themselves. We should rethink this.




          Another way you can come at this is from a user engagement perspective:




          Hey John, [...]. Because this feature uses the camera constantly, it will use a lot of battery power. Since it uploads the video to our servers, it also uses a lot of user data. What do you think would happen if our users suddenly see their batteries decreasing rapidly and their data usage spiking, and then find out it's our app that did it? Would you use an app which causes a significant drain on your phone like this? Do you think our users will? What will you tell your investors if user engagement falls off a cliff due to these issues?




          See what he says. If this doesn't convince him, then:



          5) Make them fire you, or, better, make them force you to quit. Come into work every day and do everything they ask as normal, except do not do this project. Then they have 2 choices: Abandon the project, or fire you and bring in someone who will do the project. In the first case, you win! In the second case, if they fire you then you should contact a lawyer. Bring all the evidence you have concerning the project, the concerns you raised, who you raised them to, everything. Remember, document everything. You likely have a case (IANAL). If they force you to quit, then on top of the above legal case, you may also have a case for constructive dismissal; the tl;dr of Wikipedia is that the definition (IANAL) is when your company makes your life a living hell, but does not fire you, to the point at which you have no choice but to quit.



          6) If you get wind of the project being redirected (i.e. your team is removed from it and another team is given the task instead), contact the local authorities ASAP. You likely have protection as a whistleblower. Dump everything you have to the authorities as soon as you can and in as much detail as you can.






          share|improve this answer















          1) Document everything, starting now. You will likely need it.



          2) Do not start building this feature. Do not prioritize it, do not write tickets for it, do not task your team with anything to do with it.



          3) If management wants to chastise you over dereliction of duty, allow them to do so, and simply ignore everything they say. Document these situations as well.



          4) Go as high as you can in the food chain. If your boss won't listen, go to their boss. If their boss won't listen, go to their boss. And so on. What you should explain to them is the worst-case-but-possible scenario that you could get in trouble for. Other answers suggest going the child porn route, and that's not a bad idea, but if you can think of something more dangerous then go for it. I would do something like this:




          (to CEO) Hey, John [or however you want to address the CEO], I'm having an issue with this new feature we're developing. I know the purpose of the feature is [explain what product management told you], but I feel like we could get in a lot of trouble for this. For example, what happens if we're recording and we accidentally record an underage child changing their clothes? That gets us in a lot of trouble, not with the customer, but with the police directly. I don't think an EULA handles that use case, because minors can't legally give permission to record pornography of themselves. We should rethink this.




          Another way you can come at this is from a user engagement perspective:




          Hey John, [...]. Because this feature uses the camera constantly, it will use a lot of battery power. Since it uploads the video to our servers, it also uses a lot of user data. What do you think would happen if our users suddenly see their batteries decreasing rapidly and their data usage spiking, and then find out it's our app that did it? Would you use an app which causes a significant drain on your phone like this? Do you think our users will? What will you tell your investors if user engagement falls off a cliff due to these issues?




          See what he says. If this doesn't convince him, then:



          5) Make them fire you, or, better, make them force you to quit. Come into work every day and do everything they ask as normal, except do not do this project. Then they have 2 choices: Abandon the project, or fire you and bring in someone who will do the project. In the first case, you win! In the second case, if they fire you then you should contact a lawyer. Bring all the evidence you have concerning the project, the concerns you raised, who you raised them to, everything. Remember, document everything. You likely have a case (IANAL). If they force you to quit, then on top of the above legal case, you may also have a case for constructive dismissal; the tl;dr of Wikipedia is that the definition (IANAL) is when your company makes your life a living hell, but does not fire you, to the point at which you have no choice but to quit.



          6) If you get wind of the project being redirected (i.e. your team is removed from it and another team is given the task instead), contact the local authorities ASAP. You likely have protection as a whistleblower. Dump everything you have to the authorities as soon as you can and in as much detail as you can.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited yesterday

























          answered yesterday









          Ertai87Ertai87

          11.5k21434




          11.5k21434







          • 6





            Best answer BY FAR. Several answers say to "document everything." This answer goes into highly specific detail about what to document, and how to actually proceed, and when to go to the authorities. I hope this advice is followed.

            – Wildcard
            yesterday











          • I would say that authorities should be notified now. I'm sure their reaction would be "no crime has been committed since the app hasn't been released" BUT not reporting that a crime is being planned is likely also illegal

            – UKMonkey
            8 hours ago











          • @UKMonkey I'd give the company the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they're not completely insane and can still be reasoned with. I'd only go to the authorities once it's clear this company is dead set on breaking the law.

            – Ertai87
            8 hours ago






          • 1





            He said he's talked to the CEO about it and he doesn't care, so there's nowhere higher to go unless there's a board of directors (not much chance of them listening to a developer). The rest of your answer is good though.

            – nasch
            6 hours ago






          • 1





            @nasch He did say he believes he can still talk some sense into the CEO. I wouldn't go to the authorities until that vein of inquiry has been wiped out. No point in slinging mud at your own company until you're sure they deserve it.

            – Ertai87
            4 hours ago












          • 6





            Best answer BY FAR. Several answers say to "document everything." This answer goes into highly specific detail about what to document, and how to actually proceed, and when to go to the authorities. I hope this advice is followed.

            – Wildcard
            yesterday











          • I would say that authorities should be notified now. I'm sure their reaction would be "no crime has been committed since the app hasn't been released" BUT not reporting that a crime is being planned is likely also illegal

            – UKMonkey
            8 hours ago











          • @UKMonkey I'd give the company the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they're not completely insane and can still be reasoned with. I'd only go to the authorities once it's clear this company is dead set on breaking the law.

            – Ertai87
            8 hours ago






          • 1





            He said he's talked to the CEO about it and he doesn't care, so there's nowhere higher to go unless there's a board of directors (not much chance of them listening to a developer). The rest of your answer is good though.

            – nasch
            6 hours ago






          • 1





            @nasch He did say he believes he can still talk some sense into the CEO. I wouldn't go to the authorities until that vein of inquiry has been wiped out. No point in slinging mud at your own company until you're sure they deserve it.

            – Ertai87
            4 hours ago







          6




          6





          Best answer BY FAR. Several answers say to "document everything." This answer goes into highly specific detail about what to document, and how to actually proceed, and when to go to the authorities. I hope this advice is followed.

          – Wildcard
          yesterday





          Best answer BY FAR. Several answers say to "document everything." This answer goes into highly specific detail about what to document, and how to actually proceed, and when to go to the authorities. I hope this advice is followed.

          – Wildcard
          yesterday













          I would say that authorities should be notified now. I'm sure their reaction would be "no crime has been committed since the app hasn't been released" BUT not reporting that a crime is being planned is likely also illegal

          – UKMonkey
          8 hours ago





          I would say that authorities should be notified now. I'm sure their reaction would be "no crime has been committed since the app hasn't been released" BUT not reporting that a crime is being planned is likely also illegal

          – UKMonkey
          8 hours ago













          @UKMonkey I'd give the company the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they're not completely insane and can still be reasoned with. I'd only go to the authorities once it's clear this company is dead set on breaking the law.

          – Ertai87
          8 hours ago





          @UKMonkey I'd give the company the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they're not completely insane and can still be reasoned with. I'd only go to the authorities once it's clear this company is dead set on breaking the law.

          – Ertai87
          8 hours ago




          1




          1





          He said he's talked to the CEO about it and he doesn't care, so there's nowhere higher to go unless there's a board of directors (not much chance of them listening to a developer). The rest of your answer is good though.

          – nasch
          6 hours ago





          He said he's talked to the CEO about it and he doesn't care, so there's nowhere higher to go unless there's a board of directors (not much chance of them listening to a developer). The rest of your answer is good though.

          – nasch
          6 hours ago




          1




          1





          @nasch He did say he believes he can still talk some sense into the CEO. I wouldn't go to the authorities until that vein of inquiry has been wiped out. No point in slinging mud at your own company until you're sure they deserve it.

          – Ertai87
          4 hours ago





          @nasch He did say he believes he can still talk some sense into the CEO. I wouldn't go to the authorities until that vein of inquiry has been wiped out. No point in slinging mud at your own company until you're sure they deserve it.

          – Ertai87
          4 hours ago











          11














          TLDR: Openly, brazenly start collecting documents that prove you were not a decider in this matter, that you advised management against this feature for privacy reasons, and are simply following orders to retain your good job status. Ask the boss flat-out to give you a letter stating exactly that. This may sober him up.



          If that doesn't work, I'd find another company who wants a good team, and take your team with you.



          The eavesdropping is a very big deal



          Eavesdropping is a criminal charge that varies by state or nationality. Some are "1-party states", where if 1 party in the room gives permission, it's legal.



          Most others are "all-party states", meaning everyone being recorded must give permission.



          The user doesn't know about your company's eavesdropping, which makes this 0-party; no one in the room is aware. That makes it a crime just about everywhere. What will your criminal defense be? Language buried deep in the EULA? Juries aren't going to accept that because then you would be accusing your customers of breaking the law by not reading the EULA thoroughly enough. Juries, who don't either, will say "no sale".



          The feature would send customers through legal hell



          But it gets worse. Consider Curtis, your customer, and imagine he's in a civil lawsuit about something totally unrelated. The plaintiff subpoenas from you all the data you have about them. You hand over the eavesdropped content (which makes perfect sense to your boss, since he's such a help-the-police guy). Plaintiff recognizes the eavesdropping, and blows up, assuming Curtis did this.



          • In an all-party state: Curtis is up the creek. This smokes any chance of a settlement, and horribly prejudices the civil case: Curtis loses HARD. Then the judge refers it to the DA for criminal prosecution; Curtis must be punished. The whole time, nobody knows how this happened. All parties assume Curtis did it on purpose. Curtis assumes he accidentally turned on some feature he's unaware of.


          • In a 1-party state, Curtis is safe from legal peril, because he had a right to eavesdrop. But if he says he did it on purpose, he enrages the plaintiff. So he is better off saying the app did this without his permission, which will not be believed. Showing it's true will calm the plaintiff and create a "common enemy".


          Both of these end in an interesting problem for you. Curtis's best bet is to prove that you do indeed eavesdrop. He already has subpoena power because of the civil suit. So he'll use it to get the same records about any of plaintiff's staff (turnabout is fair play) -- or better, the judge. Can you imagine the civil court judge looking at photos of himself naked?? The judge will have confidence he did not turn this on. He will say to the D.A. "At first I didn't believe defendant, but the company did it to me too". Curtis is out to save his bacon, not get your company, but to save his bacon he must nail you.




          All this to say, getting caught is inevitable. It will be viewed by every US state as your company committing a criminal act for money, and presumably lots of other nations and provinces as well.



          It will particularly enrage the EFF, ACLU and privacy organizations, especially if it's uncovered that part of your boss's motivation was to "help law enforcement".



          Now, when your company gets caught, I don't know how things work in the Philippines, but it sounds like there'd be an internal scramble to blame the next guy. Your boss would obviously have an advantage there, and would try to sell it as "I had no idea OP and her developers were doing that, send them to jail not me".



          Sober up your boss, by covering your tail



          So your top job is to cover yourself (CYA) and your team against that possibility. What you want is a "get out of jail free card" that shows management was fully aware of the privacy issues and wanted the project built anyway, and their reasoning. Now, when your boss sees you trying to collect those CYA documents, that's going to sober them up right quick: Why do my subordinates think they need this? The boss may have indulged in fantasy when it comes to the legal implications, now he's thinking. Fair chance you will get a memo saying "drop the feature".




          I considered this a final answer, but some are contemplating what happens in a mad world where your boss goes "here you go, here's a letter making me fully responsible for legal consequences".



          At this point your "get out of jail free card" would become a Nuremberg defense. Aside from any contemplation of whether Nuremberg bears on complex questions of law, I honestly don't foresee you hanging around to find out. If your boss persists, you've got a great team and I expect you to find better work and take your team with you.






          share|improve this answer

























          • So, do these "get out of jail free cards" actually work? I thought it'd be the responsibility of anybody who sees a crime happening, to at least report it.

            – Sudix
            12 hours ago






          • 1





            This sounds like The Nuremberg Defense, which has questionable legal standing. The only way to get out of this one is to expressly refuse to be a part of it whatsoever, and even that might not be enough, if you had reasonable knowledge that it was going on without you being a direct part of it, but you also failed to do everything within your power to stop it (including contacting law enforcement).

            – Ertai87
            9 hours ago












          • @Ertai87 You do have a point, especially given the jurisdiction. In the US at least, the Nuremberg defense only fails when the crime is obvious: you can't put a foot soldier in a catch-22 between direct orders, and a possible Supreme Court decision, that's why nobody went to jail for interning the Japanese. But in the Philippines, the legal system is a bit more wild-west, and I could foresee them casting blame all the way down the stack. Anyway, I never imagined OP would actually comply.. Edited.

            – Harper
            7 hours ago






          • 1





            @Sudix Edited. I never honestly expected OP would actually comply. I imagine the pursuit of the "get out of jail free card" to sober up the boss and make him consult counsel, a discussion that I expect to end with "OH. Nevermind then."

            – Harper
            7 hours ago












          • -1. OP is in Philippines, and the answer is centered on American legal framework.

            – Neith
            7 hours ago















          11














          TLDR: Openly, brazenly start collecting documents that prove you were not a decider in this matter, that you advised management against this feature for privacy reasons, and are simply following orders to retain your good job status. Ask the boss flat-out to give you a letter stating exactly that. This may sober him up.



          If that doesn't work, I'd find another company who wants a good team, and take your team with you.



          The eavesdropping is a very big deal



          Eavesdropping is a criminal charge that varies by state or nationality. Some are "1-party states", where if 1 party in the room gives permission, it's legal.



          Most others are "all-party states", meaning everyone being recorded must give permission.



          The user doesn't know about your company's eavesdropping, which makes this 0-party; no one in the room is aware. That makes it a crime just about everywhere. What will your criminal defense be? Language buried deep in the EULA? Juries aren't going to accept that because then you would be accusing your customers of breaking the law by not reading the EULA thoroughly enough. Juries, who don't either, will say "no sale".



          The feature would send customers through legal hell



          But it gets worse. Consider Curtis, your customer, and imagine he's in a civil lawsuit about something totally unrelated. The plaintiff subpoenas from you all the data you have about them. You hand over the eavesdropped content (which makes perfect sense to your boss, since he's such a help-the-police guy). Plaintiff recognizes the eavesdropping, and blows up, assuming Curtis did this.



          • In an all-party state: Curtis is up the creek. This smokes any chance of a settlement, and horribly prejudices the civil case: Curtis loses HARD. Then the judge refers it to the DA for criminal prosecution; Curtis must be punished. The whole time, nobody knows how this happened. All parties assume Curtis did it on purpose. Curtis assumes he accidentally turned on some feature he's unaware of.


          • In a 1-party state, Curtis is safe from legal peril, because he had a right to eavesdrop. But if he says he did it on purpose, he enrages the plaintiff. So he is better off saying the app did this without his permission, which will not be believed. Showing it's true will calm the plaintiff and create a "common enemy".


          Both of these end in an interesting problem for you. Curtis's best bet is to prove that you do indeed eavesdrop. He already has subpoena power because of the civil suit. So he'll use it to get the same records about any of plaintiff's staff (turnabout is fair play) -- or better, the judge. Can you imagine the civil court judge looking at photos of himself naked?? The judge will have confidence he did not turn this on. He will say to the D.A. "At first I didn't believe defendant, but the company did it to me too". Curtis is out to save his bacon, not get your company, but to save his bacon he must nail you.




          All this to say, getting caught is inevitable. It will be viewed by every US state as your company committing a criminal act for money, and presumably lots of other nations and provinces as well.



          It will particularly enrage the EFF, ACLU and privacy organizations, especially if it's uncovered that part of your boss's motivation was to "help law enforcement".



          Now, when your company gets caught, I don't know how things work in the Philippines, but it sounds like there'd be an internal scramble to blame the next guy. Your boss would obviously have an advantage there, and would try to sell it as "I had no idea OP and her developers were doing that, send them to jail not me".



          Sober up your boss, by covering your tail



          So your top job is to cover yourself (CYA) and your team against that possibility. What you want is a "get out of jail free card" that shows management was fully aware of the privacy issues and wanted the project built anyway, and their reasoning. Now, when your boss sees you trying to collect those CYA documents, that's going to sober them up right quick: Why do my subordinates think they need this? The boss may have indulged in fantasy when it comes to the legal implications, now he's thinking. Fair chance you will get a memo saying "drop the feature".




          I considered this a final answer, but some are contemplating what happens in a mad world where your boss goes "here you go, here's a letter making me fully responsible for legal consequences".



          At this point your "get out of jail free card" would become a Nuremberg defense. Aside from any contemplation of whether Nuremberg bears on complex questions of law, I honestly don't foresee you hanging around to find out. If your boss persists, you've got a great team and I expect you to find better work and take your team with you.






          share|improve this answer

























          • So, do these "get out of jail free cards" actually work? I thought it'd be the responsibility of anybody who sees a crime happening, to at least report it.

            – Sudix
            12 hours ago






          • 1





            This sounds like The Nuremberg Defense, which has questionable legal standing. The only way to get out of this one is to expressly refuse to be a part of it whatsoever, and even that might not be enough, if you had reasonable knowledge that it was going on without you being a direct part of it, but you also failed to do everything within your power to stop it (including contacting law enforcement).

            – Ertai87
            9 hours ago












          • @Ertai87 You do have a point, especially given the jurisdiction. In the US at least, the Nuremberg defense only fails when the crime is obvious: you can't put a foot soldier in a catch-22 between direct orders, and a possible Supreme Court decision, that's why nobody went to jail for interning the Japanese. But in the Philippines, the legal system is a bit more wild-west, and I could foresee them casting blame all the way down the stack. Anyway, I never imagined OP would actually comply.. Edited.

            – Harper
            7 hours ago






          • 1





            @Sudix Edited. I never honestly expected OP would actually comply. I imagine the pursuit of the "get out of jail free card" to sober up the boss and make him consult counsel, a discussion that I expect to end with "OH. Nevermind then."

            – Harper
            7 hours ago












          • -1. OP is in Philippines, and the answer is centered on American legal framework.

            – Neith
            7 hours ago













          11












          11








          11







          TLDR: Openly, brazenly start collecting documents that prove you were not a decider in this matter, that you advised management against this feature for privacy reasons, and are simply following orders to retain your good job status. Ask the boss flat-out to give you a letter stating exactly that. This may sober him up.



          If that doesn't work, I'd find another company who wants a good team, and take your team with you.



          The eavesdropping is a very big deal



          Eavesdropping is a criminal charge that varies by state or nationality. Some are "1-party states", where if 1 party in the room gives permission, it's legal.



          Most others are "all-party states", meaning everyone being recorded must give permission.



          The user doesn't know about your company's eavesdropping, which makes this 0-party; no one in the room is aware. That makes it a crime just about everywhere. What will your criminal defense be? Language buried deep in the EULA? Juries aren't going to accept that because then you would be accusing your customers of breaking the law by not reading the EULA thoroughly enough. Juries, who don't either, will say "no sale".



          The feature would send customers through legal hell



          But it gets worse. Consider Curtis, your customer, and imagine he's in a civil lawsuit about something totally unrelated. The plaintiff subpoenas from you all the data you have about them. You hand over the eavesdropped content (which makes perfect sense to your boss, since he's such a help-the-police guy). Plaintiff recognizes the eavesdropping, and blows up, assuming Curtis did this.



          • In an all-party state: Curtis is up the creek. This smokes any chance of a settlement, and horribly prejudices the civil case: Curtis loses HARD. Then the judge refers it to the DA for criminal prosecution; Curtis must be punished. The whole time, nobody knows how this happened. All parties assume Curtis did it on purpose. Curtis assumes he accidentally turned on some feature he's unaware of.


          • In a 1-party state, Curtis is safe from legal peril, because he had a right to eavesdrop. But if he says he did it on purpose, he enrages the plaintiff. So he is better off saying the app did this without his permission, which will not be believed. Showing it's true will calm the plaintiff and create a "common enemy".


          Both of these end in an interesting problem for you. Curtis's best bet is to prove that you do indeed eavesdrop. He already has subpoena power because of the civil suit. So he'll use it to get the same records about any of plaintiff's staff (turnabout is fair play) -- or better, the judge. Can you imagine the civil court judge looking at photos of himself naked?? The judge will have confidence he did not turn this on. He will say to the D.A. "At first I didn't believe defendant, but the company did it to me too". Curtis is out to save his bacon, not get your company, but to save his bacon he must nail you.




          All this to say, getting caught is inevitable. It will be viewed by every US state as your company committing a criminal act for money, and presumably lots of other nations and provinces as well.



          It will particularly enrage the EFF, ACLU and privacy organizations, especially if it's uncovered that part of your boss's motivation was to "help law enforcement".



          Now, when your company gets caught, I don't know how things work in the Philippines, but it sounds like there'd be an internal scramble to blame the next guy. Your boss would obviously have an advantage there, and would try to sell it as "I had no idea OP and her developers were doing that, send them to jail not me".



          Sober up your boss, by covering your tail



          So your top job is to cover yourself (CYA) and your team against that possibility. What you want is a "get out of jail free card" that shows management was fully aware of the privacy issues and wanted the project built anyway, and their reasoning. Now, when your boss sees you trying to collect those CYA documents, that's going to sober them up right quick: Why do my subordinates think they need this? The boss may have indulged in fantasy when it comes to the legal implications, now he's thinking. Fair chance you will get a memo saying "drop the feature".




          I considered this a final answer, but some are contemplating what happens in a mad world where your boss goes "here you go, here's a letter making me fully responsible for legal consequences".



          At this point your "get out of jail free card" would become a Nuremberg defense. Aside from any contemplation of whether Nuremberg bears on complex questions of law, I honestly don't foresee you hanging around to find out. If your boss persists, you've got a great team and I expect you to find better work and take your team with you.






          share|improve this answer















          TLDR: Openly, brazenly start collecting documents that prove you were not a decider in this matter, that you advised management against this feature for privacy reasons, and are simply following orders to retain your good job status. Ask the boss flat-out to give you a letter stating exactly that. This may sober him up.



          If that doesn't work, I'd find another company who wants a good team, and take your team with you.



          The eavesdropping is a very big deal



          Eavesdropping is a criminal charge that varies by state or nationality. Some are "1-party states", where if 1 party in the room gives permission, it's legal.



          Most others are "all-party states", meaning everyone being recorded must give permission.



          The user doesn't know about your company's eavesdropping, which makes this 0-party; no one in the room is aware. That makes it a crime just about everywhere. What will your criminal defense be? Language buried deep in the EULA? Juries aren't going to accept that because then you would be accusing your customers of breaking the law by not reading the EULA thoroughly enough. Juries, who don't either, will say "no sale".



          The feature would send customers through legal hell



          But it gets worse. Consider Curtis, your customer, and imagine he's in a civil lawsuit about something totally unrelated. The plaintiff subpoenas from you all the data you have about them. You hand over the eavesdropped content (which makes perfect sense to your boss, since he's such a help-the-police guy). Plaintiff recognizes the eavesdropping, and blows up, assuming Curtis did this.



          • In an all-party state: Curtis is up the creek. This smokes any chance of a settlement, and horribly prejudices the civil case: Curtis loses HARD. Then the judge refers it to the DA for criminal prosecution; Curtis must be punished. The whole time, nobody knows how this happened. All parties assume Curtis did it on purpose. Curtis assumes he accidentally turned on some feature he's unaware of.


          • In a 1-party state, Curtis is safe from legal peril, because he had a right to eavesdrop. But if he says he did it on purpose, he enrages the plaintiff. So he is better off saying the app did this without his permission, which will not be believed. Showing it's true will calm the plaintiff and create a "common enemy".


          Both of these end in an interesting problem for you. Curtis's best bet is to prove that you do indeed eavesdrop. He already has subpoena power because of the civil suit. So he'll use it to get the same records about any of plaintiff's staff (turnabout is fair play) -- or better, the judge. Can you imagine the civil court judge looking at photos of himself naked?? The judge will have confidence he did not turn this on. He will say to the D.A. "At first I didn't believe defendant, but the company did it to me too". Curtis is out to save his bacon, not get your company, but to save his bacon he must nail you.




          All this to say, getting caught is inevitable. It will be viewed by every US state as your company committing a criminal act for money, and presumably lots of other nations and provinces as well.



          It will particularly enrage the EFF, ACLU and privacy organizations, especially if it's uncovered that part of your boss's motivation was to "help law enforcement".



          Now, when your company gets caught, I don't know how things work in the Philippines, but it sounds like there'd be an internal scramble to blame the next guy. Your boss would obviously have an advantage there, and would try to sell it as "I had no idea OP and her developers were doing that, send them to jail not me".



          Sober up your boss, by covering your tail



          So your top job is to cover yourself (CYA) and your team against that possibility. What you want is a "get out of jail free card" that shows management was fully aware of the privacy issues and wanted the project built anyway, and their reasoning. Now, when your boss sees you trying to collect those CYA documents, that's going to sober them up right quick: Why do my subordinates think they need this? The boss may have indulged in fantasy when it comes to the legal implications, now he's thinking. Fair chance you will get a memo saying "drop the feature".




          I considered this a final answer, but some are contemplating what happens in a mad world where your boss goes "here you go, here's a letter making me fully responsible for legal consequences".



          At this point your "get out of jail free card" would become a Nuremberg defense. Aside from any contemplation of whether Nuremberg bears on complex questions of law, I honestly don't foresee you hanging around to find out. If your boss persists, you've got a great team and I expect you to find better work and take your team with you.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 7 hours ago

























          answered yesterday









          HarperHarper

          5,13211024




          5,13211024












          • So, do these "get out of jail free cards" actually work? I thought it'd be the responsibility of anybody who sees a crime happening, to at least report it.

            – Sudix
            12 hours ago






          • 1





            This sounds like The Nuremberg Defense, which has questionable legal standing. The only way to get out of this one is to expressly refuse to be a part of it whatsoever, and even that might not be enough, if you had reasonable knowledge that it was going on without you being a direct part of it, but you also failed to do everything within your power to stop it (including contacting law enforcement).

            – Ertai87
            9 hours ago












          • @Ertai87 You do have a point, especially given the jurisdiction. In the US at least, the Nuremberg defense only fails when the crime is obvious: you can't put a foot soldier in a catch-22 between direct orders, and a possible Supreme Court decision, that's why nobody went to jail for interning the Japanese. But in the Philippines, the legal system is a bit more wild-west, and I could foresee them casting blame all the way down the stack. Anyway, I never imagined OP would actually comply.. Edited.

            – Harper
            7 hours ago






          • 1





            @Sudix Edited. I never honestly expected OP would actually comply. I imagine the pursuit of the "get out of jail free card" to sober up the boss and make him consult counsel, a discussion that I expect to end with "OH. Nevermind then."

            – Harper
            7 hours ago












          • -1. OP is in Philippines, and the answer is centered on American legal framework.

            – Neith
            7 hours ago

















          • So, do these "get out of jail free cards" actually work? I thought it'd be the responsibility of anybody who sees a crime happening, to at least report it.

            – Sudix
            12 hours ago






          • 1





            This sounds like The Nuremberg Defense, which has questionable legal standing. The only way to get out of this one is to expressly refuse to be a part of it whatsoever, and even that might not be enough, if you had reasonable knowledge that it was going on without you being a direct part of it, but you also failed to do everything within your power to stop it (including contacting law enforcement).

            – Ertai87
            9 hours ago












          • @Ertai87 You do have a point, especially given the jurisdiction. In the US at least, the Nuremberg defense only fails when the crime is obvious: you can't put a foot soldier in a catch-22 between direct orders, and a possible Supreme Court decision, that's why nobody went to jail for interning the Japanese. But in the Philippines, the legal system is a bit more wild-west, and I could foresee them casting blame all the way down the stack. Anyway, I never imagined OP would actually comply.. Edited.

            – Harper
            7 hours ago






          • 1





            @Sudix Edited. I never honestly expected OP would actually comply. I imagine the pursuit of the "get out of jail free card" to sober up the boss and make him consult counsel, a discussion that I expect to end with "OH. Nevermind then."

            – Harper
            7 hours ago












          • -1. OP is in Philippines, and the answer is centered on American legal framework.

            – Neith
            7 hours ago
















          So, do these "get out of jail free cards" actually work? I thought it'd be the responsibility of anybody who sees a crime happening, to at least report it.

          – Sudix
          12 hours ago





          So, do these "get out of jail free cards" actually work? I thought it'd be the responsibility of anybody who sees a crime happening, to at least report it.

          – Sudix
          12 hours ago




          1




          1





          This sounds like The Nuremberg Defense, which has questionable legal standing. The only way to get out of this one is to expressly refuse to be a part of it whatsoever, and even that might not be enough, if you had reasonable knowledge that it was going on without you being a direct part of it, but you also failed to do everything within your power to stop it (including contacting law enforcement).

          – Ertai87
          9 hours ago






          This sounds like The Nuremberg Defense, which has questionable legal standing. The only way to get out of this one is to expressly refuse to be a part of it whatsoever, and even that might not be enough, if you had reasonable knowledge that it was going on without you being a direct part of it, but you also failed to do everything within your power to stop it (including contacting law enforcement).

          – Ertai87
          9 hours ago














          @Ertai87 You do have a point, especially given the jurisdiction. In the US at least, the Nuremberg defense only fails when the crime is obvious: you can't put a foot soldier in a catch-22 between direct orders, and a possible Supreme Court decision, that's why nobody went to jail for interning the Japanese. But in the Philippines, the legal system is a bit more wild-west, and I could foresee them casting blame all the way down the stack. Anyway, I never imagined OP would actually comply.. Edited.

          – Harper
          7 hours ago





          @Ertai87 You do have a point, especially given the jurisdiction. In the US at least, the Nuremberg defense only fails when the crime is obvious: you can't put a foot soldier in a catch-22 between direct orders, and a possible Supreme Court decision, that's why nobody went to jail for interning the Japanese. But in the Philippines, the legal system is a bit more wild-west, and I could foresee them casting blame all the way down the stack. Anyway, I never imagined OP would actually comply.. Edited.

          – Harper
          7 hours ago




          1




          1





          @Sudix Edited. I never honestly expected OP would actually comply. I imagine the pursuit of the "get out of jail free card" to sober up the boss and make him consult counsel, a discussion that I expect to end with "OH. Nevermind then."

          – Harper
          7 hours ago






          @Sudix Edited. I never honestly expected OP would actually comply. I imagine the pursuit of the "get out of jail free card" to sober up the boss and make him consult counsel, a discussion that I expect to end with "OH. Nevermind then."

          – Harper
          7 hours ago














          -1. OP is in Philippines, and the answer is centered on American legal framework.

          – Neith
          7 hours ago





          -1. OP is in Philippines, and the answer is centered on American legal framework.

          – Neith
          7 hours ago











          5














          Slightly different approach than the other (mostly very good) answers.

          This answer is an attempt for you to keep your job and not have to write the feature.




          the product owner explains to me that while the feature is truly useless, it still has to be made so as to attract investors




          My alternative is to approach the company lawyer directly.
          You have a legal issue that could sink the whole company that he might understand.



          Approach the lawyer like this: (use an innocent / concerned expression)




          "Hey [lawyer], I previously had a problem with that video feature - CEO may have mentioned this. But after talking to him I told [product owner] about it he said we had to do it anyway. So I went back to try to figure out how to do it because it looks like everyone is on board with it."




          You are just playing the good employee so he will listen closely to what you are saying (instead of just nod and pay half-attention to someone that doesn't want to do what the CEO and the investors want to do).




          "One pretty big legal issue occurred to me that I thought I should run by you."

          "Because the customer doesn't know about the video, they could be in their home unknowing filming their children while they get dressed. Even if the EULA TOS exempts us from this, if it comes out that we have taken images of naked children and stored them on our servers - wouldn't that be a PR nightmare for both the company and the investors?"

          "All it would take is a Mom or Dad using another app while changing a baby... or being in a bathroom with their small child. I don't know how to detect this, so I cannot prevent our storing compromising pictures on our servers.

          "That would be a big deal, right? Especially since we aren't telling the parents?"

          "There are apps that track how often an infant goes to the bathroom, so it is reasonable."




          Best wishes on this.



          Hope you will tell us how it comes out in a few weeks.




          As an aside... whistle-blower laws in the US only protect you from legal action when you tell the authorities. Tell the press, or anyone else, and you're open to be sued.

          I'm not a lawyer, but this information came from a lawyer who was speaking at a conference I attended several years ago.






          share|improve this answer


















          • 1





            Even if you can't talk to the company lawyer yourself, you could insist on having his written opinion on this. This can be an eye opener for people.

            – Benjamin
            18 hours ago
















          5














          Slightly different approach than the other (mostly very good) answers.

          This answer is an attempt for you to keep your job and not have to write the feature.




          the product owner explains to me that while the feature is truly useless, it still has to be made so as to attract investors




          My alternative is to approach the company lawyer directly.
          You have a legal issue that could sink the whole company that he might understand.



          Approach the lawyer like this: (use an innocent / concerned expression)




          "Hey [lawyer], I previously had a problem with that video feature - CEO may have mentioned this. But after talking to him I told [product owner] about it he said we had to do it anyway. So I went back to try to figure out how to do it because it looks like everyone is on board with it."




          You are just playing the good employee so he will listen closely to what you are saying (instead of just nod and pay half-attention to someone that doesn't want to do what the CEO and the investors want to do).




          "One pretty big legal issue occurred to me that I thought I should run by you."

          "Because the customer doesn't know about the video, they could be in their home unknowing filming their children while they get dressed. Even if the EULA TOS exempts us from this, if it comes out that we have taken images of naked children and stored them on our servers - wouldn't that be a PR nightmare for both the company and the investors?"

          "All it would take is a Mom or Dad using another app while changing a baby... or being in a bathroom with their small child. I don't know how to detect this, so I cannot prevent our storing compromising pictures on our servers.

          "That would be a big deal, right? Especially since we aren't telling the parents?"

          "There are apps that track how often an infant goes to the bathroom, so it is reasonable."




          Best wishes on this.



          Hope you will tell us how it comes out in a few weeks.




          As an aside... whistle-blower laws in the US only protect you from legal action when you tell the authorities. Tell the press, or anyone else, and you're open to be sued.

          I'm not a lawyer, but this information came from a lawyer who was speaking at a conference I attended several years ago.






          share|improve this answer


















          • 1





            Even if you can't talk to the company lawyer yourself, you could insist on having his written opinion on this. This can be an eye opener for people.

            – Benjamin
            18 hours ago














          5












          5








          5







          Slightly different approach than the other (mostly very good) answers.

          This answer is an attempt for you to keep your job and not have to write the feature.




          the product owner explains to me that while the feature is truly useless, it still has to be made so as to attract investors




          My alternative is to approach the company lawyer directly.
          You have a legal issue that could sink the whole company that he might understand.



          Approach the lawyer like this: (use an innocent / concerned expression)




          "Hey [lawyer], I previously had a problem with that video feature - CEO may have mentioned this. But after talking to him I told [product owner] about it he said we had to do it anyway. So I went back to try to figure out how to do it because it looks like everyone is on board with it."




          You are just playing the good employee so he will listen closely to what you are saying (instead of just nod and pay half-attention to someone that doesn't want to do what the CEO and the investors want to do).




          "One pretty big legal issue occurred to me that I thought I should run by you."

          "Because the customer doesn't know about the video, they could be in their home unknowing filming their children while they get dressed. Even if the EULA TOS exempts us from this, if it comes out that we have taken images of naked children and stored them on our servers - wouldn't that be a PR nightmare for both the company and the investors?"

          "All it would take is a Mom or Dad using another app while changing a baby... or being in a bathroom with their small child. I don't know how to detect this, so I cannot prevent our storing compromising pictures on our servers.

          "That would be a big deal, right? Especially since we aren't telling the parents?"

          "There are apps that track how often an infant goes to the bathroom, so it is reasonable."




          Best wishes on this.



          Hope you will tell us how it comes out in a few weeks.




          As an aside... whistle-blower laws in the US only protect you from legal action when you tell the authorities. Tell the press, or anyone else, and you're open to be sued.

          I'm not a lawyer, but this information came from a lawyer who was speaking at a conference I attended several years ago.






          share|improve this answer













          Slightly different approach than the other (mostly very good) answers.

          This answer is an attempt for you to keep your job and not have to write the feature.




          the product owner explains to me that while the feature is truly useless, it still has to be made so as to attract investors




          My alternative is to approach the company lawyer directly.
          You have a legal issue that could sink the whole company that he might understand.



          Approach the lawyer like this: (use an innocent / concerned expression)




          "Hey [lawyer], I previously had a problem with that video feature - CEO may have mentioned this. But after talking to him I told [product owner] about it he said we had to do it anyway. So I went back to try to figure out how to do it because it looks like everyone is on board with it."




          You are just playing the good employee so he will listen closely to what you are saying (instead of just nod and pay half-attention to someone that doesn't want to do what the CEO and the investors want to do).




          "One pretty big legal issue occurred to me that I thought I should run by you."

          "Because the customer doesn't know about the video, they could be in their home unknowing filming their children while they get dressed. Even if the EULA TOS exempts us from this, if it comes out that we have taken images of naked children and stored them on our servers - wouldn't that be a PR nightmare for both the company and the investors?"

          "All it would take is a Mom or Dad using another app while changing a baby... or being in a bathroom with their small child. I don't know how to detect this, so I cannot prevent our storing compromising pictures on our servers.

          "That would be a big deal, right? Especially since we aren't telling the parents?"

          "There are apps that track how often an infant goes to the bathroom, so it is reasonable."




          Best wishes on this.



          Hope you will tell us how it comes out in a few weeks.




          As an aside... whistle-blower laws in the US only protect you from legal action when you tell the authorities. Tell the press, or anyone else, and you're open to be sued.

          I'm not a lawyer, but this information came from a lawyer who was speaking at a conference I attended several years ago.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered yesterday









          J. Chris ComptonJ. Chris Compton

          5,4421233




          5,4421233







          • 1





            Even if you can't talk to the company lawyer yourself, you could insist on having his written opinion on this. This can be an eye opener for people.

            – Benjamin
            18 hours ago













          • 1





            Even if you can't talk to the company lawyer yourself, you could insist on having his written opinion on this. This can be an eye opener for people.

            – Benjamin
            18 hours ago








          1




          1





          Even if you can't talk to the company lawyer yourself, you could insist on having his written opinion on this. This can be an eye opener for people.

          – Benjamin
          18 hours ago






          Even if you can't talk to the company lawyer yourself, you could insist on having his written opinion on this. This can be an eye opener for people.

          – Benjamin
          18 hours ago












          5














          I don't disagree with the answer by Dark Matter, but I wanted to offer you an option that isn't mentioned there.



          In many companies there is an ethics officer, whose job is to ensure that the company complies with ethical standards. I'm guessing your company doesn't have one, but future readers of this might try that. Also sometimes contacting the company lawyer is effective. Lawyers have an obligation to uphold the law, and if they know their client is engaging in illegal activity they are much less able to ignore it than other people.



          The final option is to gather enough evidence to document what you are being asked to do, and then send it to the authorities. Or the news media. Or both.



          It goes without saying that this is a nuclear option. While it is possible to do anonymously (Wikileaks?) there is a pretty good chance you will be at least suspected of being the leaker, and probably fired. Technically you are also exposing confidential information, and there is a chance that you could be pursued in the courts. In my country you would be protected by whistleblower legislation, but I don't imagine the Philippines has that.



          So the consequences for you might be severe. Don't take this action unless you are prepared for them. But on the upside you would be exposing a corrupt CEO and possibly a corrupt company, which would be a serious deterrent to other companies who want to do the same thing.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 1





            Contacting the company lawyer might as well be a nuclear option for me; as the lawyer and the CEO are in great terms and was in fact in the meeting with the investors who were enthusiastic about the problematic feature request.

            – Jenny Tengson Mandani
            yesterday






          • 2





            I just wanted to make sure that future readers of this knew about all their options.

            – DJClayworth
            yesterday






          • 1





            FWIW, Manila is The Philippines, not Malaysia. Probably the same deal though.

            – Ertai87
            yesterday






          • 3





            For what it is worth (FWIW) according to a lawyer's presentation I attended a few years ago at a national tech conference... whistle-blower legislation in the US only protects you if you tell appropriate government authorities - there is no protection from those laws if you tell the press or anyone else.

            – J. Chris Compton
            yesterday











          • A lawyer is not obliged to uphold the law, but in some countries lawyers might lose their title if they do not. In practice, the lawyer should advice the company on the legality of e.g. this feature, but that is about it.

            – bjorn
            8 hours ago















          5














          I don't disagree with the answer by Dark Matter, but I wanted to offer you an option that isn't mentioned there.



          In many companies there is an ethics officer, whose job is to ensure that the company complies with ethical standards. I'm guessing your company doesn't have one, but future readers of this might try that. Also sometimes contacting the company lawyer is effective. Lawyers have an obligation to uphold the law, and if they know their client is engaging in illegal activity they are much less able to ignore it than other people.



          The final option is to gather enough evidence to document what you are being asked to do, and then send it to the authorities. Or the news media. Or both.



          It goes without saying that this is a nuclear option. While it is possible to do anonymously (Wikileaks?) there is a pretty good chance you will be at least suspected of being the leaker, and probably fired. Technically you are also exposing confidential information, and there is a chance that you could be pursued in the courts. In my country you would be protected by whistleblower legislation, but I don't imagine the Philippines has that.



          So the consequences for you might be severe. Don't take this action unless you are prepared for them. But on the upside you would be exposing a corrupt CEO and possibly a corrupt company, which would be a serious deterrent to other companies who want to do the same thing.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 1





            Contacting the company lawyer might as well be a nuclear option for me; as the lawyer and the CEO are in great terms and was in fact in the meeting with the investors who were enthusiastic about the problematic feature request.

            – Jenny Tengson Mandani
            yesterday






          • 2





            I just wanted to make sure that future readers of this knew about all their options.

            – DJClayworth
            yesterday






          • 1





            FWIW, Manila is The Philippines, not Malaysia. Probably the same deal though.

            – Ertai87
            yesterday






          • 3





            For what it is worth (FWIW) according to a lawyer's presentation I attended a few years ago at a national tech conference... whistle-blower legislation in the US only protects you if you tell appropriate government authorities - there is no protection from those laws if you tell the press or anyone else.

            – J. Chris Compton
            yesterday











          • A lawyer is not obliged to uphold the law, but in some countries lawyers might lose their title if they do not. In practice, the lawyer should advice the company on the legality of e.g. this feature, but that is about it.

            – bjorn
            8 hours ago













          5












          5








          5







          I don't disagree with the answer by Dark Matter, but I wanted to offer you an option that isn't mentioned there.



          In many companies there is an ethics officer, whose job is to ensure that the company complies with ethical standards. I'm guessing your company doesn't have one, but future readers of this might try that. Also sometimes contacting the company lawyer is effective. Lawyers have an obligation to uphold the law, and if they know their client is engaging in illegal activity they are much less able to ignore it than other people.



          The final option is to gather enough evidence to document what you are being asked to do, and then send it to the authorities. Or the news media. Or both.



          It goes without saying that this is a nuclear option. While it is possible to do anonymously (Wikileaks?) there is a pretty good chance you will be at least suspected of being the leaker, and probably fired. Technically you are also exposing confidential information, and there is a chance that you could be pursued in the courts. In my country you would be protected by whistleblower legislation, but I don't imagine the Philippines has that.



          So the consequences for you might be severe. Don't take this action unless you are prepared for them. But on the upside you would be exposing a corrupt CEO and possibly a corrupt company, which would be a serious deterrent to other companies who want to do the same thing.






          share|improve this answer















          I don't disagree with the answer by Dark Matter, but I wanted to offer you an option that isn't mentioned there.



          In many companies there is an ethics officer, whose job is to ensure that the company complies with ethical standards. I'm guessing your company doesn't have one, but future readers of this might try that. Also sometimes contacting the company lawyer is effective. Lawyers have an obligation to uphold the law, and if they know their client is engaging in illegal activity they are much less able to ignore it than other people.



          The final option is to gather enough evidence to document what you are being asked to do, and then send it to the authorities. Or the news media. Or both.



          It goes without saying that this is a nuclear option. While it is possible to do anonymously (Wikileaks?) there is a pretty good chance you will be at least suspected of being the leaker, and probably fired. Technically you are also exposing confidential information, and there is a chance that you could be pursued in the courts. In my country you would be protected by whistleblower legislation, but I don't imagine the Philippines has that.



          So the consequences for you might be severe. Don't take this action unless you are prepared for them. But on the upside you would be exposing a corrupt CEO and possibly a corrupt company, which would be a serious deterrent to other companies who want to do the same thing.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited yesterday









          Community

          1




          1










          answered yesterday









          DJClayworthDJClayworth

          44.9k1193155




          44.9k1193155







          • 1





            Contacting the company lawyer might as well be a nuclear option for me; as the lawyer and the CEO are in great terms and was in fact in the meeting with the investors who were enthusiastic about the problematic feature request.

            – Jenny Tengson Mandani
            yesterday






          • 2





            I just wanted to make sure that future readers of this knew about all their options.

            – DJClayworth
            yesterday






          • 1





            FWIW, Manila is The Philippines, not Malaysia. Probably the same deal though.

            – Ertai87
            yesterday






          • 3





            For what it is worth (FWIW) according to a lawyer's presentation I attended a few years ago at a national tech conference... whistle-blower legislation in the US only protects you if you tell appropriate government authorities - there is no protection from those laws if you tell the press or anyone else.

            – J. Chris Compton
            yesterday











          • A lawyer is not obliged to uphold the law, but in some countries lawyers might lose their title if they do not. In practice, the lawyer should advice the company on the legality of e.g. this feature, but that is about it.

            – bjorn
            8 hours ago












          • 1





            Contacting the company lawyer might as well be a nuclear option for me; as the lawyer and the CEO are in great terms and was in fact in the meeting with the investors who were enthusiastic about the problematic feature request.

            – Jenny Tengson Mandani
            yesterday






          • 2





            I just wanted to make sure that future readers of this knew about all their options.

            – DJClayworth
            yesterday






          • 1





            FWIW, Manila is The Philippines, not Malaysia. Probably the same deal though.

            – Ertai87
            yesterday






          • 3





            For what it is worth (FWIW) according to a lawyer's presentation I attended a few years ago at a national tech conference... whistle-blower legislation in the US only protects you if you tell appropriate government authorities - there is no protection from those laws if you tell the press or anyone else.

            – J. Chris Compton
            yesterday











          • A lawyer is not obliged to uphold the law, but in some countries lawyers might lose their title if they do not. In practice, the lawyer should advice the company on the legality of e.g. this feature, but that is about it.

            – bjorn
            8 hours ago







          1




          1





          Contacting the company lawyer might as well be a nuclear option for me; as the lawyer and the CEO are in great terms and was in fact in the meeting with the investors who were enthusiastic about the problematic feature request.

          – Jenny Tengson Mandani
          yesterday





          Contacting the company lawyer might as well be a nuclear option for me; as the lawyer and the CEO are in great terms and was in fact in the meeting with the investors who were enthusiastic about the problematic feature request.

          – Jenny Tengson Mandani
          yesterday




          2




          2





          I just wanted to make sure that future readers of this knew about all their options.

          – DJClayworth
          yesterday





          I just wanted to make sure that future readers of this knew about all their options.

          – DJClayworth
          yesterday




          1




          1





          FWIW, Manila is The Philippines, not Malaysia. Probably the same deal though.

          – Ertai87
          yesterday





          FWIW, Manila is The Philippines, not Malaysia. Probably the same deal though.

          – Ertai87
          yesterday




          3




          3





          For what it is worth (FWIW) according to a lawyer's presentation I attended a few years ago at a national tech conference... whistle-blower legislation in the US only protects you if you tell appropriate government authorities - there is no protection from those laws if you tell the press or anyone else.

          – J. Chris Compton
          yesterday





          For what it is worth (FWIW) according to a lawyer's presentation I attended a few years ago at a national tech conference... whistle-blower legislation in the US only protects you if you tell appropriate government authorities - there is no protection from those laws if you tell the press or anyone else.

          – J. Chris Compton
          yesterday













          A lawyer is not obliged to uphold the law, but in some countries lawyers might lose their title if they do not. In practice, the lawyer should advice the company on the legality of e.g. this feature, but that is about it.

          – bjorn
          8 hours ago





          A lawyer is not obliged to uphold the law, but in some countries lawyers might lose their title if they do not. In practice, the lawyer should advice the company on the legality of e.g. this feature, but that is about it.

          – bjorn
          8 hours ago











          3














          Some very powerful and unpleasant people in the past have used technology (for example old fashioned audio tapes) to record meetings secretly. They get the victim to admit to disliking another powerful figure and then use the tapes as a form of blackmail or simply to set opponents against each other, e.g. "This is what X said about you, and I've got the tape to prove it."



          It is not impossible that someone has been searching around for a firm willing to produce this sort of software and there might be considerable bribes involved.



          You didn't say what the app does. Could it be used for blackmail, or spying for industrial secrets in a certain sphere? Could it be used to predict fluctuations in the financial markets?



          I would get out ASAP because if anything like this is going on, it won't be the big players who get prosecuted, it will be the ones at the bottom of the chain.






          share|improve this answer





























            3














            Some very powerful and unpleasant people in the past have used technology (for example old fashioned audio tapes) to record meetings secretly. They get the victim to admit to disliking another powerful figure and then use the tapes as a form of blackmail or simply to set opponents against each other, e.g. "This is what X said about you, and I've got the tape to prove it."



            It is not impossible that someone has been searching around for a firm willing to produce this sort of software and there might be considerable bribes involved.



            You didn't say what the app does. Could it be used for blackmail, or spying for industrial secrets in a certain sphere? Could it be used to predict fluctuations in the financial markets?



            I would get out ASAP because if anything like this is going on, it won't be the big players who get prosecuted, it will be the ones at the bottom of the chain.






            share|improve this answer



























              3












              3








              3







              Some very powerful and unpleasant people in the past have used technology (for example old fashioned audio tapes) to record meetings secretly. They get the victim to admit to disliking another powerful figure and then use the tapes as a form of blackmail or simply to set opponents against each other, e.g. "This is what X said about you, and I've got the tape to prove it."



              It is not impossible that someone has been searching around for a firm willing to produce this sort of software and there might be considerable bribes involved.



              You didn't say what the app does. Could it be used for blackmail, or spying for industrial secrets in a certain sphere? Could it be used to predict fluctuations in the financial markets?



              I would get out ASAP because if anything like this is going on, it won't be the big players who get prosecuted, it will be the ones at the bottom of the chain.






              share|improve this answer















              Some very powerful and unpleasant people in the past have used technology (for example old fashioned audio tapes) to record meetings secretly. They get the victim to admit to disliking another powerful figure and then use the tapes as a form of blackmail or simply to set opponents against each other, e.g. "This is what X said about you, and I've got the tape to prove it."



              It is not impossible that someone has been searching around for a firm willing to produce this sort of software and there might be considerable bribes involved.



              You didn't say what the app does. Could it be used for blackmail, or spying for industrial secrets in a certain sphere? Could it be used to predict fluctuations in the financial markets?



              I would get out ASAP because if anything like this is going on, it won't be the big players who get prosecuted, it will be the ones at the bottom of the chain.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited 11 hours ago

























              answered yesterday









              chasly from UKchasly from UK

              425211




              425211





















                  3














                  I would like to approach a resolution to this issue in a slightly different way. The question was specifically:




                  How to be diplomatic in refusing to write code that breaches the privacy of our users




                  There are two ways to approach this:



                  1. Refuse to write the code

                  2. Make the case that this feature will negatively impact the project vision and you feel responsibility to steadfastly object to anything that will derail the project success

                  They both result in the same thing -- a refusal to implement the feature -- but the latter approach roots the refusal in the general desire for the app and business success, rather than for the users privacy. User privacy is a means to application success, but vise versa is not necessarily true.



                  To do this I would:



                  • Seek to establish common ground and good intent

                  • Ground any justifications in risks that I deem are important for the CEO

                  • Be enthusiastic about the project and the company, but steadfast in the refusal to implement

                  i.e. "I am really sorry but I cannot continue with this as it stands."



                  For example:




                  Dear $CEO,



                  I am a member of the software development team working on $APP. I am passionate about $STATED_APPS_PURPOSE and have enjoyed working on $PREVIOUS_NON_CREEPY_THINGS.



                  However, I recently learned of this new feature that will require the recording of users at all times through their camera. While I understand the benefits of this feature, including:



                  • $CREEPY_BENEFIT_A

                  • $CREEPY_BENEFIT_B

                  • $INVESTORS_HAPPY_C

                  I feel compelled to note that this new feature deviates significantly from $STATED_APPS_PURPOSE. It may be that I have misunderstood the nature of the requirements from this feature, but as the feature has been requested I see significant new project risks introduced, including:



                  • User backlash at discovering the unexpected behaviour of the application

                  • Potential violations of users privacy law $EXAMPLE in Manilla and within other locales

                  • Punitive damages associated with the aforementioned violations of law

                  It is my assessment that this feature has deviated enough from $STATED_APPS_PURPOSE that I no longer feel comfortable with the tradeoffs the application has made, and I am thus not a suitable candidate for the ongoing development of this application.



                  I am reaching out to you now such that I may understand more the nature of this feature to clarify whether it should be implemented as stated, or whether our project would better grow in other areas.



                  Kind regards,
                  $YOU.




                  Couching a justification in moral grounds that we know and understand are different from our own is an uncomfortable process. However, while it might be easier if our friends and colleagues shared our own values we each arrived in each others company via a different path and arguing a point to a given audience will be much more successful at homogenising the practical outcomes of our values, if not their roots.






                  share|improve this answer










                  New contributor




                  Andrew Howden is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.
























                    3














                    I would like to approach a resolution to this issue in a slightly different way. The question was specifically:




                    How to be diplomatic in refusing to write code that breaches the privacy of our users




                    There are two ways to approach this:



                    1. Refuse to write the code

                    2. Make the case that this feature will negatively impact the project vision and you feel responsibility to steadfastly object to anything that will derail the project success

                    They both result in the same thing -- a refusal to implement the feature -- but the latter approach roots the refusal in the general desire for the app and business success, rather than for the users privacy. User privacy is a means to application success, but vise versa is not necessarily true.



                    To do this I would:



                    • Seek to establish common ground and good intent

                    • Ground any justifications in risks that I deem are important for the CEO

                    • Be enthusiastic about the project and the company, but steadfast in the refusal to implement

                    i.e. "I am really sorry but I cannot continue with this as it stands."



                    For example:




                    Dear $CEO,



                    I am a member of the software development team working on $APP. I am passionate about $STATED_APPS_PURPOSE and have enjoyed working on $PREVIOUS_NON_CREEPY_THINGS.



                    However, I recently learned of this new feature that will require the recording of users at all times through their camera. While I understand the benefits of this feature, including:



                    • $CREEPY_BENEFIT_A

                    • $CREEPY_BENEFIT_B

                    • $INVESTORS_HAPPY_C

                    I feel compelled to note that this new feature deviates significantly from $STATED_APPS_PURPOSE. It may be that I have misunderstood the nature of the requirements from this feature, but as the feature has been requested I see significant new project risks introduced, including:



                    • User backlash at discovering the unexpected behaviour of the application

                    • Potential violations of users privacy law $EXAMPLE in Manilla and within other locales

                    • Punitive damages associated with the aforementioned violations of law

                    It is my assessment that this feature has deviated enough from $STATED_APPS_PURPOSE that I no longer feel comfortable with the tradeoffs the application has made, and I am thus not a suitable candidate for the ongoing development of this application.



                    I am reaching out to you now such that I may understand more the nature of this feature to clarify whether it should be implemented as stated, or whether our project would better grow in other areas.



                    Kind regards,
                    $YOU.




                    Couching a justification in moral grounds that we know and understand are different from our own is an uncomfortable process. However, while it might be easier if our friends and colleagues shared our own values we each arrived in each others company via a different path and arguing a point to a given audience will be much more successful at homogenising the practical outcomes of our values, if not their roots.






                    share|improve this answer










                    New contributor




                    Andrew Howden is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                    Check out our Code of Conduct.






















                      3












                      3








                      3







                      I would like to approach a resolution to this issue in a slightly different way. The question was specifically:




                      How to be diplomatic in refusing to write code that breaches the privacy of our users




                      There are two ways to approach this:



                      1. Refuse to write the code

                      2. Make the case that this feature will negatively impact the project vision and you feel responsibility to steadfastly object to anything that will derail the project success

                      They both result in the same thing -- a refusal to implement the feature -- but the latter approach roots the refusal in the general desire for the app and business success, rather than for the users privacy. User privacy is a means to application success, but vise versa is not necessarily true.



                      To do this I would:



                      • Seek to establish common ground and good intent

                      • Ground any justifications in risks that I deem are important for the CEO

                      • Be enthusiastic about the project and the company, but steadfast in the refusal to implement

                      i.e. "I am really sorry but I cannot continue with this as it stands."



                      For example:




                      Dear $CEO,



                      I am a member of the software development team working on $APP. I am passionate about $STATED_APPS_PURPOSE and have enjoyed working on $PREVIOUS_NON_CREEPY_THINGS.



                      However, I recently learned of this new feature that will require the recording of users at all times through their camera. While I understand the benefits of this feature, including:



                      • $CREEPY_BENEFIT_A

                      • $CREEPY_BENEFIT_B

                      • $INVESTORS_HAPPY_C

                      I feel compelled to note that this new feature deviates significantly from $STATED_APPS_PURPOSE. It may be that I have misunderstood the nature of the requirements from this feature, but as the feature has been requested I see significant new project risks introduced, including:



                      • User backlash at discovering the unexpected behaviour of the application

                      • Potential violations of users privacy law $EXAMPLE in Manilla and within other locales

                      • Punitive damages associated with the aforementioned violations of law

                      It is my assessment that this feature has deviated enough from $STATED_APPS_PURPOSE that I no longer feel comfortable with the tradeoffs the application has made, and I am thus not a suitable candidate for the ongoing development of this application.



                      I am reaching out to you now such that I may understand more the nature of this feature to clarify whether it should be implemented as stated, or whether our project would better grow in other areas.



                      Kind regards,
                      $YOU.




                      Couching a justification in moral grounds that we know and understand are different from our own is an uncomfortable process. However, while it might be easier if our friends and colleagues shared our own values we each arrived in each others company via a different path and arguing a point to a given audience will be much more successful at homogenising the practical outcomes of our values, if not their roots.






                      share|improve this answer










                      New contributor




                      Andrew Howden is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.










                      I would like to approach a resolution to this issue in a slightly different way. The question was specifically:




                      How to be diplomatic in refusing to write code that breaches the privacy of our users




                      There are two ways to approach this:



                      1. Refuse to write the code

                      2. Make the case that this feature will negatively impact the project vision and you feel responsibility to steadfastly object to anything that will derail the project success

                      They both result in the same thing -- a refusal to implement the feature -- but the latter approach roots the refusal in the general desire for the app and business success, rather than for the users privacy. User privacy is a means to application success, but vise versa is not necessarily true.



                      To do this I would:



                      • Seek to establish common ground and good intent

                      • Ground any justifications in risks that I deem are important for the CEO

                      • Be enthusiastic about the project and the company, but steadfast in the refusal to implement

                      i.e. "I am really sorry but I cannot continue with this as it stands."



                      For example:




                      Dear $CEO,



                      I am a member of the software development team working on $APP. I am passionate about $STATED_APPS_PURPOSE and have enjoyed working on $PREVIOUS_NON_CREEPY_THINGS.



                      However, I recently learned of this new feature that will require the recording of users at all times through their camera. While I understand the benefits of this feature, including:



                      • $CREEPY_BENEFIT_A

                      • $CREEPY_BENEFIT_B

                      • $INVESTORS_HAPPY_C

                      I feel compelled to note that this new feature deviates significantly from $STATED_APPS_PURPOSE. It may be that I have misunderstood the nature of the requirements from this feature, but as the feature has been requested I see significant new project risks introduced, including:



                      • User backlash at discovering the unexpected behaviour of the application

                      • Potential violations of users privacy law $EXAMPLE in Manilla and within other locales

                      • Punitive damages associated with the aforementioned violations of law

                      It is my assessment that this feature has deviated enough from $STATED_APPS_PURPOSE that I no longer feel comfortable with the tradeoffs the application has made, and I am thus not a suitable candidate for the ongoing development of this application.



                      I am reaching out to you now such that I may understand more the nature of this feature to clarify whether it should be implemented as stated, or whether our project would better grow in other areas.



                      Kind regards,
                      $YOU.




                      Couching a justification in moral grounds that we know and understand are different from our own is an uncomfortable process. However, while it might be easier if our friends and colleagues shared our own values we each arrived in each others company via a different path and arguing a point to a given audience will be much more successful at homogenising the practical outcomes of our values, if not their roots.







                      share|improve this answer










                      New contributor




                      Andrew Howden is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited 8 hours ago









                      Ertai87

                      11.5k21434




                      11.5k21434






                      New contributor




                      Andrew Howden is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                      answered yesterday









                      Andrew HowdenAndrew Howden

                      312




                      312




                      New contributor




                      Andrew Howden is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.





                      New contributor





                      Andrew Howden is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.






                      Andrew Howden is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                          2














                          Ask your CEO whether he will be using the app. Or whether it is possible police or politicians will use the app.



                          If so, tell him it is a security risk because all the engineers in the company will be able to spy on him and on others. Maybe it works as a deterrent if he is concerned himself.



                          Also make him aware of the commercial risk of doing this: he might lose his entire user base if they find out. Play on his ego, surely he is too smart to take such a risk?



                          I'm adding this answer because you explicitly ask for a diplomatic solution. Simply quitting or paper trailing is not necessarily diplomatic.






                          share|improve this answer










                          New contributor




                          don.joey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.
























                            2














                            Ask your CEO whether he will be using the app. Or whether it is possible police or politicians will use the app.



                            If so, tell him it is a security risk because all the engineers in the company will be able to spy on him and on others. Maybe it works as a deterrent if he is concerned himself.



                            Also make him aware of the commercial risk of doing this: he might lose his entire user base if they find out. Play on his ego, surely he is too smart to take such a risk?



                            I'm adding this answer because you explicitly ask for a diplomatic solution. Simply quitting or paper trailing is not necessarily diplomatic.






                            share|improve this answer










                            New contributor




                            don.joey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                              2












                              2








                              2







                              Ask your CEO whether he will be using the app. Or whether it is possible police or politicians will use the app.



                              If so, tell him it is a security risk because all the engineers in the company will be able to spy on him and on others. Maybe it works as a deterrent if he is concerned himself.



                              Also make him aware of the commercial risk of doing this: he might lose his entire user base if they find out. Play on his ego, surely he is too smart to take such a risk?



                              I'm adding this answer because you explicitly ask for a diplomatic solution. Simply quitting or paper trailing is not necessarily diplomatic.






                              share|improve this answer










                              New contributor




                              don.joey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.










                              Ask your CEO whether he will be using the app. Or whether it is possible police or politicians will use the app.



                              If so, tell him it is a security risk because all the engineers in the company will be able to spy on him and on others. Maybe it works as a deterrent if he is concerned himself.



                              Also make him aware of the commercial risk of doing this: he might lose his entire user base if they find out. Play on his ego, surely he is too smart to take such a risk?



                              I'm adding this answer because you explicitly ask for a diplomatic solution. Simply quitting or paper trailing is not necessarily diplomatic.







                              share|improve this answer










                              New contributor




                              don.joey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.









                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer








                              edited yesterday





















                              New contributor




                              don.joey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                              answered yesterday









                              don.joeydon.joey

                              1214




                              1214




                              New contributor




                              don.joey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                              New contributor





                              don.joey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.






                              don.joey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                                  2














                                  While IT is not as professionalised as many other occupations, there are still professional standards organisations which will provide advice and assistance in these situations. In your instance, you should contact the Philippine Computer Society and notify them you have been instructed to breach their Code of Ethics.






                                  share|improve this answer








                                  New contributor




                                  Bardi Harborow is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                                  • As much as possible I want to solve this problem diplomatically with the CEO without having to insinuate any governing body or NGO that I am having this problem. I've been poring into the documents by the National Privacy Commission and so far it has been helpful.

                                    – Jenny Tengson Mandani
                                    20 hours ago















                                  2














                                  While IT is not as professionalised as many other occupations, there are still professional standards organisations which will provide advice and assistance in these situations. In your instance, you should contact the Philippine Computer Society and notify them you have been instructed to breach their Code of Ethics.






                                  share|improve this answer








                                  New contributor




                                  Bardi Harborow is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                  Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                                  • As much as possible I want to solve this problem diplomatically with the CEO without having to insinuate any governing body or NGO that I am having this problem. I've been poring into the documents by the National Privacy Commission and so far it has been helpful.

                                    – Jenny Tengson Mandani
                                    20 hours ago













                                  2












                                  2








                                  2







                                  While IT is not as professionalised as many other occupations, there are still professional standards organisations which will provide advice and assistance in these situations. In your instance, you should contact the Philippine Computer Society and notify them you have been instructed to breach their Code of Ethics.






                                  share|improve this answer








                                  New contributor




                                  Bardi Harborow is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                  Check out our Code of Conduct.










                                  While IT is not as professionalised as many other occupations, there are still professional standards organisations which will provide advice and assistance in these situations. In your instance, you should contact the Philippine Computer Society and notify them you have been instructed to breach their Code of Ethics.







                                  share|improve this answer








                                  New contributor




                                  Bardi Harborow is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                  Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                  share|improve this answer



                                  share|improve this answer






                                  New contributor




                                  Bardi Harborow is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                                  answered 20 hours ago









                                  Bardi HarborowBardi Harborow

                                  1506




                                  1506




                                  New contributor




                                  Bardi Harborow is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                  Check out our Code of Conduct.





                                  New contributor





                                  Bardi Harborow is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                  Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                  Bardi Harborow is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                  Check out our Code of Conduct.












                                  • As much as possible I want to solve this problem diplomatically with the CEO without having to insinuate any governing body or NGO that I am having this problem. I've been poring into the documents by the National Privacy Commission and so far it has been helpful.

                                    – Jenny Tengson Mandani
                                    20 hours ago

















                                  • As much as possible I want to solve this problem diplomatically with the CEO without having to insinuate any governing body or NGO that I am having this problem. I've been poring into the documents by the National Privacy Commission and so far it has been helpful.

                                    – Jenny Tengson Mandani
                                    20 hours ago
















                                  As much as possible I want to solve this problem diplomatically with the CEO without having to insinuate any governing body or NGO that I am having this problem. I've been poring into the documents by the National Privacy Commission and so far it has been helpful.

                                  – Jenny Tengson Mandani
                                  20 hours ago





                                  As much as possible I want to solve this problem diplomatically with the CEO without having to insinuate any governing body or NGO that I am having this problem. I've been poring into the documents by the National Privacy Commission and so far it has been helpful.

                                  – Jenny Tengson Mandani
                                  20 hours ago











                                  2














                                  If you do not want to make this a fight:



                                  You know you're making an app that is against Google's rules on privacy (specifically camera use), so please do immediately report it.
                                  I think it's anonymous, but you can pretend to be a user I guess. I'm sure the same thing can be done for IOS. Act surprised this happened, and then get busy "fixing it" back to how it was.



                                  This isn't the best way, but is a non-direct way to protect your users, if it proves impossible to kill this idea before development.






                                  share|improve this answer



























                                    2














                                    If you do not want to make this a fight:



                                    You know you're making an app that is against Google's rules on privacy (specifically camera use), so please do immediately report it.
                                    I think it's anonymous, but you can pretend to be a user I guess. I'm sure the same thing can be done for IOS. Act surprised this happened, and then get busy "fixing it" back to how it was.



                                    This isn't the best way, but is a non-direct way to protect your users, if it proves impossible to kill this idea before development.






                                    share|improve this answer

























                                      2












                                      2








                                      2







                                      If you do not want to make this a fight:



                                      You know you're making an app that is against Google's rules on privacy (specifically camera use), so please do immediately report it.
                                      I think it's anonymous, but you can pretend to be a user I guess. I'm sure the same thing can be done for IOS. Act surprised this happened, and then get busy "fixing it" back to how it was.



                                      This isn't the best way, but is a non-direct way to protect your users, if it proves impossible to kill this idea before development.






                                      share|improve this answer













                                      If you do not want to make this a fight:



                                      You know you're making an app that is against Google's rules on privacy (specifically camera use), so please do immediately report it.
                                      I think it's anonymous, but you can pretend to be a user I guess. I'm sure the same thing can be done for IOS. Act surprised this happened, and then get busy "fixing it" back to how it was.



                                      This isn't the best way, but is a non-direct way to protect your users, if it proves impossible to kill this idea before development.







                                      share|improve this answer












                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer










                                      answered 8 hours ago









                                      Nathan CooperNathan Cooper

                                      2,57441525




                                      2,57441525





















                                          2














                                          Did you consider the humorous approach?



                                          Maybe it's late for this, but your CEO may be overwhelmed with soft-toned legal boilerplate stuff he reads everyday that he is indeed not grasping the gravity of the situation.



                                          If I was asked to develop a feature that would secretly record video and upload it from users phones, my answer would be something like:



                                          "For real? We are gonna get SO MANY celebrity nudes! Is FamousPerson in our user base? We are so going to jail... Were is the iCloud hacker serving time again?"



                                          This is meant to send the "this is illegal" message with a catch phrase, that he's likely to remember.



                                          Others have given good enough "serious professional answers" but to avoid sounding reckless, here's my version of it: Simply don't do the code, try to get written documents/requests from your boss specifying what is to be developed. Once you do, that is your evidence. If the company is big enough, there should be a compliance channel for this kind of whistle blowing. If company is small, once you get fired you can sue the company.



                                          As usual a boilerplate text is due here: I am not a lawyer! Seek specialized help instead of relying on what may sound as legal advice form this website!






                                          share|improve this answer

























                                          • Sounds like a dangerous advice. The first part suggests to humor with something serious, the other half is giving legal advice while it shouldn't -at least not without a disclaimer.

                                            – Stelios Adamantidis
                                            9 hours ago











                                          • @SteliosAdamantidis : Fair enough, added a disclaimer.

                                            – Mefitico
                                            8 hours ago















                                          2














                                          Did you consider the humorous approach?



                                          Maybe it's late for this, but your CEO may be overwhelmed with soft-toned legal boilerplate stuff he reads everyday that he is indeed not grasping the gravity of the situation.



                                          If I was asked to develop a feature that would secretly record video and upload it from users phones, my answer would be something like:



                                          "For real? We are gonna get SO MANY celebrity nudes! Is FamousPerson in our user base? We are so going to jail... Were is the iCloud hacker serving time again?"



                                          This is meant to send the "this is illegal" message with a catch phrase, that he's likely to remember.



                                          Others have given good enough "serious professional answers" but to avoid sounding reckless, here's my version of it: Simply don't do the code, try to get written documents/requests from your boss specifying what is to be developed. Once you do, that is your evidence. If the company is big enough, there should be a compliance channel for this kind of whistle blowing. If company is small, once you get fired you can sue the company.



                                          As usual a boilerplate text is due here: I am not a lawyer! Seek specialized help instead of relying on what may sound as legal advice form this website!






                                          share|improve this answer

























                                          • Sounds like a dangerous advice. The first part suggests to humor with something serious, the other half is giving legal advice while it shouldn't -at least not without a disclaimer.

                                            – Stelios Adamantidis
                                            9 hours ago











                                          • @SteliosAdamantidis : Fair enough, added a disclaimer.

                                            – Mefitico
                                            8 hours ago













                                          2












                                          2








                                          2







                                          Did you consider the humorous approach?



                                          Maybe it's late for this, but your CEO may be overwhelmed with soft-toned legal boilerplate stuff he reads everyday that he is indeed not grasping the gravity of the situation.



                                          If I was asked to develop a feature that would secretly record video and upload it from users phones, my answer would be something like:



                                          "For real? We are gonna get SO MANY celebrity nudes! Is FamousPerson in our user base? We are so going to jail... Were is the iCloud hacker serving time again?"



                                          This is meant to send the "this is illegal" message with a catch phrase, that he's likely to remember.



                                          Others have given good enough "serious professional answers" but to avoid sounding reckless, here's my version of it: Simply don't do the code, try to get written documents/requests from your boss specifying what is to be developed. Once you do, that is your evidence. If the company is big enough, there should be a compliance channel for this kind of whistle blowing. If company is small, once you get fired you can sue the company.



                                          As usual a boilerplate text is due here: I am not a lawyer! Seek specialized help instead of relying on what may sound as legal advice form this website!






                                          share|improve this answer















                                          Did you consider the humorous approach?



                                          Maybe it's late for this, but your CEO may be overwhelmed with soft-toned legal boilerplate stuff he reads everyday that he is indeed not grasping the gravity of the situation.



                                          If I was asked to develop a feature that would secretly record video and upload it from users phones, my answer would be something like:



                                          "For real? We are gonna get SO MANY celebrity nudes! Is FamousPerson in our user base? We are so going to jail... Were is the iCloud hacker serving time again?"



                                          This is meant to send the "this is illegal" message with a catch phrase, that he's likely to remember.



                                          Others have given good enough "serious professional answers" but to avoid sounding reckless, here's my version of it: Simply don't do the code, try to get written documents/requests from your boss specifying what is to be developed. Once you do, that is your evidence. If the company is big enough, there should be a compliance channel for this kind of whistle blowing. If company is small, once you get fired you can sue the company.



                                          As usual a boilerplate text is due here: I am not a lawyer! Seek specialized help instead of relying on what may sound as legal advice form this website!







                                          share|improve this answer














                                          share|improve this answer



                                          share|improve this answer








                                          edited 8 hours ago

























                                          answered 10 hours ago









                                          MefiticoMefitico

                                          6291314




                                          6291314












                                          • Sounds like a dangerous advice. The first part suggests to humor with something serious, the other half is giving legal advice while it shouldn't -at least not without a disclaimer.

                                            – Stelios Adamantidis
                                            9 hours ago











                                          • @SteliosAdamantidis : Fair enough, added a disclaimer.

                                            – Mefitico
                                            8 hours ago

















                                          • Sounds like a dangerous advice. The first part suggests to humor with something serious, the other half is giving legal advice while it shouldn't -at least not without a disclaimer.

                                            – Stelios Adamantidis
                                            9 hours ago











                                          • @SteliosAdamantidis : Fair enough, added a disclaimer.

                                            – Mefitico
                                            8 hours ago
















                                          Sounds like a dangerous advice. The first part suggests to humor with something serious, the other half is giving legal advice while it shouldn't -at least not without a disclaimer.

                                          – Stelios Adamantidis
                                          9 hours ago





                                          Sounds like a dangerous advice. The first part suggests to humor with something serious, the other half is giving legal advice while it shouldn't -at least not without a disclaimer.

                                          – Stelios Adamantidis
                                          9 hours ago













                                          @SteliosAdamantidis : Fair enough, added a disclaimer.

                                          – Mefitico
                                          8 hours ago





                                          @SteliosAdamantidis : Fair enough, added a disclaimer.

                                          – Mefitico
                                          8 hours ago











                                          2














                                          Your boss is ordering you to engage in crime. By proceeding, you will become their accomplice because you will be knowingly engaging in criminal activity.



                                          So threaten to quit, or otherwise refuse to proceed, but not because you dislike whatever but because they can't possibly pay you enough to compensate several years of your life spent in jail. (Or maybe they can? Provide this as an option -- they will surely refuse to pay such an astronomical sum but this will open their eyes on how inadequate their demands are to what they are paying you. (Note that income from illegal activity will probably be illegal, too, so more trouble for you and the company to conceal it!) The fact that they can't demand of you more than their pay is worth is something they can't argue with.)



                                          Share the above with your co-workers and they will probably come to the same conclusion.






                                          share|improve this answer




















                                          • 1





                                            His boss cannot pay enough because the courts will happily take away his wages as profit from crime.

                                            – Joshua
                                            3 hours ago















                                          2














                                          Your boss is ordering you to engage in crime. By proceeding, you will become their accomplice because you will be knowingly engaging in criminal activity.



                                          So threaten to quit, or otherwise refuse to proceed, but not because you dislike whatever but because they can't possibly pay you enough to compensate several years of your life spent in jail. (Or maybe they can? Provide this as an option -- they will surely refuse to pay such an astronomical sum but this will open their eyes on how inadequate their demands are to what they are paying you. (Note that income from illegal activity will probably be illegal, too, so more trouble for you and the company to conceal it!) The fact that they can't demand of you more than their pay is worth is something they can't argue with.)



                                          Share the above with your co-workers and they will probably come to the same conclusion.






                                          share|improve this answer




















                                          • 1





                                            His boss cannot pay enough because the courts will happily take away his wages as profit from crime.

                                            – Joshua
                                            3 hours ago













                                          2












                                          2








                                          2







                                          Your boss is ordering you to engage in crime. By proceeding, you will become their accomplice because you will be knowingly engaging in criminal activity.



                                          So threaten to quit, or otherwise refuse to proceed, but not because you dislike whatever but because they can't possibly pay you enough to compensate several years of your life spent in jail. (Or maybe they can? Provide this as an option -- they will surely refuse to pay such an astronomical sum but this will open their eyes on how inadequate their demands are to what they are paying you. (Note that income from illegal activity will probably be illegal, too, so more trouble for you and the company to conceal it!) The fact that they can't demand of you more than their pay is worth is something they can't argue with.)



                                          Share the above with your co-workers and they will probably come to the same conclusion.






                                          share|improve this answer















                                          Your boss is ordering you to engage in crime. By proceeding, you will become their accomplice because you will be knowingly engaging in criminal activity.



                                          So threaten to quit, or otherwise refuse to proceed, but not because you dislike whatever but because they can't possibly pay you enough to compensate several years of your life spent in jail. (Or maybe they can? Provide this as an option -- they will surely refuse to pay such an astronomical sum but this will open their eyes on how inadequate their demands are to what they are paying you. (Note that income from illegal activity will probably be illegal, too, so more trouble for you and the company to conceal it!) The fact that they can't demand of you more than their pay is worth is something they can't argue with.)



                                          Share the above with your co-workers and they will probably come to the same conclusion.







                                          share|improve this answer














                                          share|improve this answer



                                          share|improve this answer








                                          edited 2 hours ago

























                                          answered yesterday









                                          ivan_pozdeevivan_pozdeev

                                          28619




                                          28619







                                          • 1





                                            His boss cannot pay enough because the courts will happily take away his wages as profit from crime.

                                            – Joshua
                                            3 hours ago












                                          • 1





                                            His boss cannot pay enough because the courts will happily take away his wages as profit from crime.

                                            – Joshua
                                            3 hours ago







                                          1




                                          1





                                          His boss cannot pay enough because the courts will happily take away his wages as profit from crime.

                                          – Joshua
                                          3 hours ago





                                          His boss cannot pay enough because the courts will happily take away his wages as profit from crime.

                                          – Joshua
                                          3 hours ago











                                          1














                                          Presumably the OP has reason to suppose that this app is "intended" to be used illegally, but stepping back from the general feeling of moral outrage in this thread, there is not much evidence (if any) to support that.



                                          I can't see anything in the OP's post which doesn't fit a use case like "this app converts your cellphone into a dashcam for use in your car". In that situation, battery usage is irrelevant since the phone would be running from the car battery. And dashcams are perfectly legal in many countries (including the UK, for example), and used as police evidence in court, just like images from any other type of security camera. In some countries, the use of dashcams is almost a necessity to support road accident insurance claims and protect oneself against insurance fraud by other people, who may well be criminals themselves.



                                          Of course the app could be used for illegal purposes as well, but so could many other items which it is perfectly legal to buy an sell - kitchen knives, for example.



                                          If the OP doesn't want to be involved in this software project for personal reasons, that's a perfectly reasonable position to take, but IMO there is far too little information given here to jump to the conclusion that the whole project, or the project leader, is operating outside of the law.






                                          share|improve this answer


















                                          • 9





                                            Could you provide a reasoning for the app recording "in the background", or the requirement that videos be uploaded? Neither of those make sense for a dashcam. In addition, adding this functionality to an existing app (that I assume had a purpose without it) instead of just making a new app seems rather fishy as well.

                                            – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                            yesterday






                                          • 2





                                            @RutherRendommeleigh I agree that adding it to an existing app seems fishy. A good, valid use case I can think of is recording dash-cam video while simultaneously using GPS navigation in a separate app. That said, automatically uploading video to a private server, and not directly telling the user that you're recording, are both very big red flags.

                                            – Martin Carney
                                            yesterday







                                          • 2





                                            You'll need a different example than dash cam... OP states the new feature would "secretly record its surroundings."

                                            – J. Chris Compton
                                            yesterday






                                          • 2





                                            Yeah it's the secret part that's the problem. Pretty much any smartphone can overtly record video, and nobody considers that to be an ethical problem because the recording function is only activated when the user selects it. There's nothing wrong with creating a video recording app; there's a problem with creating one that secretly records video.

                                            – Zach Lipton
                                            15 hours ago















                                          1














                                          Presumably the OP has reason to suppose that this app is "intended" to be used illegally, but stepping back from the general feeling of moral outrage in this thread, there is not much evidence (if any) to support that.



                                          I can't see anything in the OP's post which doesn't fit a use case like "this app converts your cellphone into a dashcam for use in your car". In that situation, battery usage is irrelevant since the phone would be running from the car battery. And dashcams are perfectly legal in many countries (including the UK, for example), and used as police evidence in court, just like images from any other type of security camera. In some countries, the use of dashcams is almost a necessity to support road accident insurance claims and protect oneself against insurance fraud by other people, who may well be criminals themselves.



                                          Of course the app could be used for illegal purposes as well, but so could many other items which it is perfectly legal to buy an sell - kitchen knives, for example.



                                          If the OP doesn't want to be involved in this software project for personal reasons, that's a perfectly reasonable position to take, but IMO there is far too little information given here to jump to the conclusion that the whole project, or the project leader, is operating outside of the law.






                                          share|improve this answer


















                                          • 9





                                            Could you provide a reasoning for the app recording "in the background", or the requirement that videos be uploaded? Neither of those make sense for a dashcam. In addition, adding this functionality to an existing app (that I assume had a purpose without it) instead of just making a new app seems rather fishy as well.

                                            – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                            yesterday






                                          • 2





                                            @RutherRendommeleigh I agree that adding it to an existing app seems fishy. A good, valid use case I can think of is recording dash-cam video while simultaneously using GPS navigation in a separate app. That said, automatically uploading video to a private server, and not directly telling the user that you're recording, are both very big red flags.

                                            – Martin Carney
                                            yesterday







                                          • 2





                                            You'll need a different example than dash cam... OP states the new feature would "secretly record its surroundings."

                                            – J. Chris Compton
                                            yesterday






                                          • 2





                                            Yeah it's the secret part that's the problem. Pretty much any smartphone can overtly record video, and nobody considers that to be an ethical problem because the recording function is only activated when the user selects it. There's nothing wrong with creating a video recording app; there's a problem with creating one that secretly records video.

                                            – Zach Lipton
                                            15 hours ago













                                          1












                                          1








                                          1







                                          Presumably the OP has reason to suppose that this app is "intended" to be used illegally, but stepping back from the general feeling of moral outrage in this thread, there is not much evidence (if any) to support that.



                                          I can't see anything in the OP's post which doesn't fit a use case like "this app converts your cellphone into a dashcam for use in your car". In that situation, battery usage is irrelevant since the phone would be running from the car battery. And dashcams are perfectly legal in many countries (including the UK, for example), and used as police evidence in court, just like images from any other type of security camera. In some countries, the use of dashcams is almost a necessity to support road accident insurance claims and protect oneself against insurance fraud by other people, who may well be criminals themselves.



                                          Of course the app could be used for illegal purposes as well, but so could many other items which it is perfectly legal to buy an sell - kitchen knives, for example.



                                          If the OP doesn't want to be involved in this software project for personal reasons, that's a perfectly reasonable position to take, but IMO there is far too little information given here to jump to the conclusion that the whole project, or the project leader, is operating outside of the law.






                                          share|improve this answer













                                          Presumably the OP has reason to suppose that this app is "intended" to be used illegally, but stepping back from the general feeling of moral outrage in this thread, there is not much evidence (if any) to support that.



                                          I can't see anything in the OP's post which doesn't fit a use case like "this app converts your cellphone into a dashcam for use in your car". In that situation, battery usage is irrelevant since the phone would be running from the car battery. And dashcams are perfectly legal in many countries (including the UK, for example), and used as police evidence in court, just like images from any other type of security camera. In some countries, the use of dashcams is almost a necessity to support road accident insurance claims and protect oneself against insurance fraud by other people, who may well be criminals themselves.



                                          Of course the app could be used for illegal purposes as well, but so could many other items which it is perfectly legal to buy an sell - kitchen knives, for example.



                                          If the OP doesn't want to be involved in this software project for personal reasons, that's a perfectly reasonable position to take, but IMO there is far too little information given here to jump to the conclusion that the whole project, or the project leader, is operating outside of the law.







                                          share|improve this answer












                                          share|improve this answer



                                          share|improve this answer










                                          answered yesterday









                                          alephzeroalephzero

                                          3,1161817




                                          3,1161817







                                          • 9





                                            Could you provide a reasoning for the app recording "in the background", or the requirement that videos be uploaded? Neither of those make sense for a dashcam. In addition, adding this functionality to an existing app (that I assume had a purpose without it) instead of just making a new app seems rather fishy as well.

                                            – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                            yesterday






                                          • 2





                                            @RutherRendommeleigh I agree that adding it to an existing app seems fishy. A good, valid use case I can think of is recording dash-cam video while simultaneously using GPS navigation in a separate app. That said, automatically uploading video to a private server, and not directly telling the user that you're recording, are both very big red flags.

                                            – Martin Carney
                                            yesterday







                                          • 2





                                            You'll need a different example than dash cam... OP states the new feature would "secretly record its surroundings."

                                            – J. Chris Compton
                                            yesterday






                                          • 2





                                            Yeah it's the secret part that's the problem. Pretty much any smartphone can overtly record video, and nobody considers that to be an ethical problem because the recording function is only activated when the user selects it. There's nothing wrong with creating a video recording app; there's a problem with creating one that secretly records video.

                                            – Zach Lipton
                                            15 hours ago












                                          • 9





                                            Could you provide a reasoning for the app recording "in the background", or the requirement that videos be uploaded? Neither of those make sense for a dashcam. In addition, adding this functionality to an existing app (that I assume had a purpose without it) instead of just making a new app seems rather fishy as well.

                                            – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                            yesterday






                                          • 2





                                            @RutherRendommeleigh I agree that adding it to an existing app seems fishy. A good, valid use case I can think of is recording dash-cam video while simultaneously using GPS navigation in a separate app. That said, automatically uploading video to a private server, and not directly telling the user that you're recording, are both very big red flags.

                                            – Martin Carney
                                            yesterday







                                          • 2





                                            You'll need a different example than dash cam... OP states the new feature would "secretly record its surroundings."

                                            – J. Chris Compton
                                            yesterday






                                          • 2





                                            Yeah it's the secret part that's the problem. Pretty much any smartphone can overtly record video, and nobody considers that to be an ethical problem because the recording function is only activated when the user selects it. There's nothing wrong with creating a video recording app; there's a problem with creating one that secretly records video.

                                            – Zach Lipton
                                            15 hours ago







                                          9




                                          9





                                          Could you provide a reasoning for the app recording "in the background", or the requirement that videos be uploaded? Neither of those make sense for a dashcam. In addition, adding this functionality to an existing app (that I assume had a purpose without it) instead of just making a new app seems rather fishy as well.

                                          – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                          yesterday





                                          Could you provide a reasoning for the app recording "in the background", or the requirement that videos be uploaded? Neither of those make sense for a dashcam. In addition, adding this functionality to an existing app (that I assume had a purpose without it) instead of just making a new app seems rather fishy as well.

                                          – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                          yesterday




                                          2




                                          2





                                          @RutherRendommeleigh I agree that adding it to an existing app seems fishy. A good, valid use case I can think of is recording dash-cam video while simultaneously using GPS navigation in a separate app. That said, automatically uploading video to a private server, and not directly telling the user that you're recording, are both very big red flags.

                                          – Martin Carney
                                          yesterday






                                          @RutherRendommeleigh I agree that adding it to an existing app seems fishy. A good, valid use case I can think of is recording dash-cam video while simultaneously using GPS navigation in a separate app. That said, automatically uploading video to a private server, and not directly telling the user that you're recording, are both very big red flags.

                                          – Martin Carney
                                          yesterday





                                          2




                                          2





                                          You'll need a different example than dash cam... OP states the new feature would "secretly record its surroundings."

                                          – J. Chris Compton
                                          yesterday





                                          You'll need a different example than dash cam... OP states the new feature would "secretly record its surroundings."

                                          – J. Chris Compton
                                          yesterday




                                          2




                                          2





                                          Yeah it's the secret part that's the problem. Pretty much any smartphone can overtly record video, and nobody considers that to be an ethical problem because the recording function is only activated when the user selects it. There's nothing wrong with creating a video recording app; there's a problem with creating one that secretly records video.

                                          – Zach Lipton
                                          15 hours ago





                                          Yeah it's the secret part that's the problem. Pretty much any smartphone can overtly record video, and nobody considers that to be an ethical problem because the recording function is only activated when the user selects it. There's nothing wrong with creating a video recording app; there's a problem with creating one that secretly records video.

                                          – Zach Lipton
                                          15 hours ago











                                          0














                                          If I were in this situation, I would give the CEO 2 choices, either A he could stop this highly illegal (at least in the USA) project and everything else can go on as normal or B he can accept your letter of resignation and you will be getting a lawyer and reporting his activities to the proper authorities, whom can do what they need to do as soon as he releases this piece of software. It is expected that you may have to do things that you don't want to do for your job, but once the issue crosses the line to illegal, there is no longer any grey space. Personally my job is definitely not worth ruining my life over by spending years in prison or in court battles.






                                          share|improve this answer










                                          New contributor




                                          dmoore1181 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                                          • @rkeet, good catch, typo has been corrected.

                                            – dmoore1181
                                            12 hours ago















                                          0














                                          If I were in this situation, I would give the CEO 2 choices, either A he could stop this highly illegal (at least in the USA) project and everything else can go on as normal or B he can accept your letter of resignation and you will be getting a lawyer and reporting his activities to the proper authorities, whom can do what they need to do as soon as he releases this piece of software. It is expected that you may have to do things that you don't want to do for your job, but once the issue crosses the line to illegal, there is no longer any grey space. Personally my job is definitely not worth ruining my life over by spending years in prison or in court battles.






                                          share|improve this answer










                                          New contributor




                                          dmoore1181 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                                          • @rkeet, good catch, typo has been corrected.

                                            – dmoore1181
                                            12 hours ago













                                          0












                                          0








                                          0







                                          If I were in this situation, I would give the CEO 2 choices, either A he could stop this highly illegal (at least in the USA) project and everything else can go on as normal or B he can accept your letter of resignation and you will be getting a lawyer and reporting his activities to the proper authorities, whom can do what they need to do as soon as he releases this piece of software. It is expected that you may have to do things that you don't want to do for your job, but once the issue crosses the line to illegal, there is no longer any grey space. Personally my job is definitely not worth ruining my life over by spending years in prison or in court battles.






                                          share|improve this answer










                                          New contributor




                                          dmoore1181 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.










                                          If I were in this situation, I would give the CEO 2 choices, either A he could stop this highly illegal (at least in the USA) project and everything else can go on as normal or B he can accept your letter of resignation and you will be getting a lawyer and reporting his activities to the proper authorities, whom can do what they need to do as soon as he releases this piece of software. It is expected that you may have to do things that you don't want to do for your job, but once the issue crosses the line to illegal, there is no longer any grey space. Personally my job is definitely not worth ruining my life over by spending years in prison or in court battles.







                                          share|improve this answer










                                          New contributor




                                          dmoore1181 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                          share|improve this answer



                                          share|improve this answer








                                          edited 12 hours ago





















                                          New contributor




                                          dmoore1181 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                                          answered yesterday









                                          dmoore1181dmoore1181

                                          1013




                                          1013




                                          New contributor




                                          dmoore1181 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.





                                          New contributor





                                          dmoore1181 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                          dmoore1181 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.












                                          • @rkeet, good catch, typo has been corrected.

                                            – dmoore1181
                                            12 hours ago

















                                          • @rkeet, good catch, typo has been corrected.

                                            – dmoore1181
                                            12 hours ago
















                                          @rkeet, good catch, typo has been corrected.

                                          – dmoore1181
                                          12 hours ago





                                          @rkeet, good catch, typo has been corrected.

                                          – dmoore1181
                                          12 hours ago











                                          -5














                                          Use your wits and technical superiority to defend yourself and take a stand against the moral corruption of the CEO. Clandestinely record a video of him giving the team instructions to break the law. Edit the video to remove your PII and blur the faces and the voices of the innocent. Retain this recording as a safeguard that you can release to the police, press, and social media at a moments notice. Find another job and never tip your hand and reveal that you have this evidence to anyone unless you need to release it. If you do need to release it, do so anonymously.






                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          Kierkegaardee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.















                                          • 20





                                            Not going to upvote because what you suggest is illegal and and dangerous, but I can't bring myself to downvote either because it's hilarious.

                                            – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                            yesterday






                                          • 5





                                            Depending on the jurisdiction this can bring gigantic problems to the OP.

                                            – GustavoMP
                                            yesterday






                                          • 3





                                            When facing an adversary that seeks to destroy the fabric of society, it is necessary to take extreme action.

                                            – Kierkegaardee
                                            yesterday






                                          • 9





                                            Oh, the irony...

                                            – Alexandre Aubrey
                                            yesterday






                                          • 5





                                            "When facing an adversary that seeks to destroy the fabric of society, it is necessary to take extreme action." Aaaaaaand that's how dictatorships are born. You can't save paradise by destroying it. (Sometimes that means we lose!)

                                            – Lightness Races in Orbit
                                            yesterday
















                                          -5














                                          Use your wits and technical superiority to defend yourself and take a stand against the moral corruption of the CEO. Clandestinely record a video of him giving the team instructions to break the law. Edit the video to remove your PII and blur the faces and the voices of the innocent. Retain this recording as a safeguard that you can release to the police, press, and social media at a moments notice. Find another job and never tip your hand and reveal that you have this evidence to anyone unless you need to release it. If you do need to release it, do so anonymously.






                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          Kierkegaardee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.















                                          • 20





                                            Not going to upvote because what you suggest is illegal and and dangerous, but I can't bring myself to downvote either because it's hilarious.

                                            – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                            yesterday






                                          • 5





                                            Depending on the jurisdiction this can bring gigantic problems to the OP.

                                            – GustavoMP
                                            yesterday






                                          • 3





                                            When facing an adversary that seeks to destroy the fabric of society, it is necessary to take extreme action.

                                            – Kierkegaardee
                                            yesterday






                                          • 9





                                            Oh, the irony...

                                            – Alexandre Aubrey
                                            yesterday






                                          • 5





                                            "When facing an adversary that seeks to destroy the fabric of society, it is necessary to take extreme action." Aaaaaaand that's how dictatorships are born. You can't save paradise by destroying it. (Sometimes that means we lose!)

                                            – Lightness Races in Orbit
                                            yesterday














                                          -5












                                          -5








                                          -5







                                          Use your wits and technical superiority to defend yourself and take a stand against the moral corruption of the CEO. Clandestinely record a video of him giving the team instructions to break the law. Edit the video to remove your PII and blur the faces and the voices of the innocent. Retain this recording as a safeguard that you can release to the police, press, and social media at a moments notice. Find another job and never tip your hand and reveal that you have this evidence to anyone unless you need to release it. If you do need to release it, do so anonymously.






                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          Kierkegaardee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.










                                          Use your wits and technical superiority to defend yourself and take a stand against the moral corruption of the CEO. Clandestinely record a video of him giving the team instructions to break the law. Edit the video to remove your PII and blur the faces and the voices of the innocent. Retain this recording as a safeguard that you can release to the police, press, and social media at a moments notice. Find another job and never tip your hand and reveal that you have this evidence to anyone unless you need to release it. If you do need to release it, do so anonymously.







                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          Kierkegaardee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                          share|improve this answer



                                          share|improve this answer






                                          New contributor




                                          Kierkegaardee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                          answered yesterday









                                          KierkegaardeeKierkegaardee

                                          634




                                          634




                                          New contributor




                                          Kierkegaardee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.





                                          New contributor





                                          Kierkegaardee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                          Kierkegaardee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.







                                          • 20





                                            Not going to upvote because what you suggest is illegal and and dangerous, but I can't bring myself to downvote either because it's hilarious.

                                            – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                            yesterday






                                          • 5





                                            Depending on the jurisdiction this can bring gigantic problems to the OP.

                                            – GustavoMP
                                            yesterday






                                          • 3





                                            When facing an adversary that seeks to destroy the fabric of society, it is necessary to take extreme action.

                                            – Kierkegaardee
                                            yesterday






                                          • 9





                                            Oh, the irony...

                                            – Alexandre Aubrey
                                            yesterday






                                          • 5





                                            "When facing an adversary that seeks to destroy the fabric of society, it is necessary to take extreme action." Aaaaaaand that's how dictatorships are born. You can't save paradise by destroying it. (Sometimes that means we lose!)

                                            – Lightness Races in Orbit
                                            yesterday













                                          • 20





                                            Not going to upvote because what you suggest is illegal and and dangerous, but I can't bring myself to downvote either because it's hilarious.

                                            – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                            yesterday






                                          • 5





                                            Depending on the jurisdiction this can bring gigantic problems to the OP.

                                            – GustavoMP
                                            yesterday






                                          • 3





                                            When facing an adversary that seeks to destroy the fabric of society, it is necessary to take extreme action.

                                            – Kierkegaardee
                                            yesterday






                                          • 9





                                            Oh, the irony...

                                            – Alexandre Aubrey
                                            yesterday






                                          • 5





                                            "When facing an adversary that seeks to destroy the fabric of society, it is necessary to take extreme action." Aaaaaaand that's how dictatorships are born. You can't save paradise by destroying it. (Sometimes that means we lose!)

                                            – Lightness Races in Orbit
                                            yesterday








                                          20




                                          20





                                          Not going to upvote because what you suggest is illegal and and dangerous, but I can't bring myself to downvote either because it's hilarious.

                                          – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                          yesterday





                                          Not going to upvote because what you suggest is illegal and and dangerous, but I can't bring myself to downvote either because it's hilarious.

                                          – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                          yesterday




                                          5




                                          5





                                          Depending on the jurisdiction this can bring gigantic problems to the OP.

                                          – GustavoMP
                                          yesterday





                                          Depending on the jurisdiction this can bring gigantic problems to the OP.

                                          – GustavoMP
                                          yesterday




                                          3




                                          3





                                          When facing an adversary that seeks to destroy the fabric of society, it is necessary to take extreme action.

                                          – Kierkegaardee
                                          yesterday





                                          When facing an adversary that seeks to destroy the fabric of society, it is necessary to take extreme action.

                                          – Kierkegaardee
                                          yesterday




                                          9




                                          9





                                          Oh, the irony...

                                          – Alexandre Aubrey
                                          yesterday





                                          Oh, the irony...

                                          – Alexandre Aubrey
                                          yesterday




                                          5




                                          5





                                          "When facing an adversary that seeks to destroy the fabric of society, it is necessary to take extreme action." Aaaaaaand that's how dictatorships are born. You can't save paradise by destroying it. (Sometimes that means we lose!)

                                          – Lightness Races in Orbit
                                          yesterday






                                          "When facing an adversary that seeks to destroy the fabric of society, it is necessary to take extreme action." Aaaaaaand that's how dictatorships are born. You can't save paradise by destroying it. (Sometimes that means we lose!)

                                          – Lightness Races in Orbit
                                          yesterday






                                          protected by Community yesterday



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