how can a perfect fourth interval be considered either consonant or dissonant? The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are In Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Perfect 4th is dissonant?Consonance & Dissonance Relative To MelodiesWhat is the difference between grouping overlaps and elisions?What is the history of the Augmented Second in World MusicWhat makes an interval “perfect”? Is this scale-dependent?What did John Cage mean by 'harmony' in his explanation to Arnold Schönberg?The theory behind western pentatonic scalesWhat determines if counterpoint is good or bad?“The intervals considered dissonant have changed since the 'Middle Ages'”; How so?Why is a major third considered more consonant than a perfect fourth?Perfect fourth is dissonant when there's no note below it?

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how can a perfect fourth interval be considered either consonant or dissonant?



The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are In
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Perfect 4th is dissonant?Consonance & Dissonance Relative To MelodiesWhat is the difference between grouping overlaps and elisions?What is the history of the Augmented Second in World MusicWhat makes an interval “perfect”? Is this scale-dependent?What did John Cage mean by 'harmony' in his explanation to Arnold Schönberg?The theory behind western pentatonic scalesWhat determines if counterpoint is good or bad?“The intervals considered dissonant have changed since the 'Middle Ages'”; How so?Why is a major third considered more consonant than a perfect fourth?Perfect fourth is dissonant when there's no note below it?










14















I've been reading Ralph Denyer's book, The Guitar Handbook, and in the section on intervals he states that the perfect fourth can be either consonant or dissonant but it's not explained as how or why. Can someone shed some light on this topic for me and help me understand what is being said here?










share|improve this question






















  • I wonder whether there may be a differece when P4 is in different intonations.

    – Tim
    yesterday











  • Related: Perfect 4th is dissonant?

    – Richard
    yesterday
















14















I've been reading Ralph Denyer's book, The Guitar Handbook, and in the section on intervals he states that the perfect fourth can be either consonant or dissonant but it's not explained as how or why. Can someone shed some light on this topic for me and help me understand what is being said here?










share|improve this question






















  • I wonder whether there may be a differece when P4 is in different intonations.

    – Tim
    yesterday











  • Related: Perfect 4th is dissonant?

    – Richard
    yesterday














14












14








14








I've been reading Ralph Denyer's book, The Guitar Handbook, and in the section on intervals he states that the perfect fourth can be either consonant or dissonant but it's not explained as how or why. Can someone shed some light on this topic for me and help me understand what is being said here?










share|improve this question














I've been reading Ralph Denyer's book, The Guitar Handbook, and in the section on intervals he states that the perfect fourth can be either consonant or dissonant but it's not explained as how or why. Can someone shed some light on this topic for me and help me understand what is being said here?







guitar theory harmony intervals






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked yesterday









skinny peacockskinny peacock

2,1802324




2,1802324












  • I wonder whether there may be a differece when P4 is in different intonations.

    – Tim
    yesterday











  • Related: Perfect 4th is dissonant?

    – Richard
    yesterday


















  • I wonder whether there may be a differece when P4 is in different intonations.

    – Tim
    yesterday











  • Related: Perfect 4th is dissonant?

    – Richard
    yesterday

















I wonder whether there may be a differece when P4 is in different intonations.

– Tim
yesterday





I wonder whether there may be a differece when P4 is in different intonations.

– Tim
yesterday













Related: Perfect 4th is dissonant?

– Richard
yesterday






Related: Perfect 4th is dissonant?

– Richard
yesterday











4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















18














There is a kind of historic flow back and forth.



A very long time ago during the Middle Ages - when parallel organum was way to harmonize - the perfect fourth was consonant.



Later when triadic harmony developed along with counterpoint the perfect fourth was treated as a dissonance that resolved to a third.



Later yet again, in modern time, the fourth is treated as a consonance in different ways. In fact in modern times there is quartal harmony based on fourths rather than thirds.



From an acoustical point of view the fourth can be considered consonant because it has a relatively 'simple' interval ratio.



The take away is: consonance and dissonance are concepts determined largely as a matter of style. This is true of other intervals. You could consider minor sevenths and tritones as consonant in the blues as they do not require resolution and a blues audience doesn't think they sound "bad." It's a matter of style and aesthetics.



A technical music theory aside: when dissonance is mentioned in any context, it probably is good to pair that with concepts of resolution (or similar concepts like consonance or stability.) In other words, simply saying X is dissonant only tells half the picture. It's really important to look at how consonant and stability are regained from, or interact with, dissonance. That dynamic is hugely important in how music works.






share|improve this answer
































    9














    A perfect fourth is considered consonant when it appears as an inversion of a perfect fifth, which is itself a consonant interval. This kind of perfect fourth more or less unavoidable in any practical polyphonic arrangement, where the root is often doubled and the fifth is somewhere in between.



    A perfect fourth is considered dissonant when it appears as an interval above the root, for example in a suspended chord or a 64 chord. It is the reason why a V64-V53-I cadence must resolve; the tonic chord in 64 position is actually considered an embellishment of V with a dissonant fourth.



    There is a psychoacoustic reason for this. Intervals which first appear early in the harmonic series are consonant; intervals which first appear later are dissonant. If you examine this diagram showing the harmonics in order, you'll find that G appears rather early (third harmonic above C) while F natural is nowhere to be found.



    enter image description here



    This makes the perfect fourth both the most consonant and one of the most dissonant intervals in the series, depending on how it appears in context.






    share|improve this answer




















    • 1





      This. Context is everything. A major seventh doesn't sound great until you add the major third (and fifth and ninth) to it. A minor ninth doesn't sound good until you add the minor third and whatever else. Context!

      – John Doe
      yesterday


















    1














    I'm guessing he's adressing how different musical traditions perceives the perfect fourth interval. In other words, historically the perfect fourth was considered dissonant, but in latter periods it has been considered a consonant interval.






    share|improve this answer























    • This is true, but mainly for the Western Music. Ancient Greece and Japan used perfect 4ths

      – Shevliaskovic
      yesterday


















    1














    In the musical context, the sense of consonance and dissonance also depends on the respective harmonical context.



    In the theory of harmony, consonant intervals are defined as at rest and not in need of resolution. On the other hand, dissonant intervals require continuation into consonance.



    The fourth counts - considered individually - to the perfect consonances. As part of a four-part major chord, it also appears consonant. eg. G-C in C-E-G-C



    If, however, it is placed in a triad as a (chord-foreign) suspended tone, it forms a dissonance: V sus7 (G-C-F)



    The fourth must therefore be resolved in the consonant third of the triad.






    share|improve this answer

























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      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes








      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      18














      There is a kind of historic flow back and forth.



      A very long time ago during the Middle Ages - when parallel organum was way to harmonize - the perfect fourth was consonant.



      Later when triadic harmony developed along with counterpoint the perfect fourth was treated as a dissonance that resolved to a third.



      Later yet again, in modern time, the fourth is treated as a consonance in different ways. In fact in modern times there is quartal harmony based on fourths rather than thirds.



      From an acoustical point of view the fourth can be considered consonant because it has a relatively 'simple' interval ratio.



      The take away is: consonance and dissonance are concepts determined largely as a matter of style. This is true of other intervals. You could consider minor sevenths and tritones as consonant in the blues as they do not require resolution and a blues audience doesn't think they sound "bad." It's a matter of style and aesthetics.



      A technical music theory aside: when dissonance is mentioned in any context, it probably is good to pair that with concepts of resolution (or similar concepts like consonance or stability.) In other words, simply saying X is dissonant only tells half the picture. It's really important to look at how consonant and stability are regained from, or interact with, dissonance. That dynamic is hugely important in how music works.






      share|improve this answer





























        18














        There is a kind of historic flow back and forth.



        A very long time ago during the Middle Ages - when parallel organum was way to harmonize - the perfect fourth was consonant.



        Later when triadic harmony developed along with counterpoint the perfect fourth was treated as a dissonance that resolved to a third.



        Later yet again, in modern time, the fourth is treated as a consonance in different ways. In fact in modern times there is quartal harmony based on fourths rather than thirds.



        From an acoustical point of view the fourth can be considered consonant because it has a relatively 'simple' interval ratio.



        The take away is: consonance and dissonance are concepts determined largely as a matter of style. This is true of other intervals. You could consider minor sevenths and tritones as consonant in the blues as they do not require resolution and a blues audience doesn't think they sound "bad." It's a matter of style and aesthetics.



        A technical music theory aside: when dissonance is mentioned in any context, it probably is good to pair that with concepts of resolution (or similar concepts like consonance or stability.) In other words, simply saying X is dissonant only tells half the picture. It's really important to look at how consonant and stability are regained from, or interact with, dissonance. That dynamic is hugely important in how music works.






        share|improve this answer



























          18












          18








          18







          There is a kind of historic flow back and forth.



          A very long time ago during the Middle Ages - when parallel organum was way to harmonize - the perfect fourth was consonant.



          Later when triadic harmony developed along with counterpoint the perfect fourth was treated as a dissonance that resolved to a third.



          Later yet again, in modern time, the fourth is treated as a consonance in different ways. In fact in modern times there is quartal harmony based on fourths rather than thirds.



          From an acoustical point of view the fourth can be considered consonant because it has a relatively 'simple' interval ratio.



          The take away is: consonance and dissonance are concepts determined largely as a matter of style. This is true of other intervals. You could consider minor sevenths and tritones as consonant in the blues as they do not require resolution and a blues audience doesn't think they sound "bad." It's a matter of style and aesthetics.



          A technical music theory aside: when dissonance is mentioned in any context, it probably is good to pair that with concepts of resolution (or similar concepts like consonance or stability.) In other words, simply saying X is dissonant only tells half the picture. It's really important to look at how consonant and stability are regained from, or interact with, dissonance. That dynamic is hugely important in how music works.






          share|improve this answer















          There is a kind of historic flow back and forth.



          A very long time ago during the Middle Ages - when parallel organum was way to harmonize - the perfect fourth was consonant.



          Later when triadic harmony developed along with counterpoint the perfect fourth was treated as a dissonance that resolved to a third.



          Later yet again, in modern time, the fourth is treated as a consonance in different ways. In fact in modern times there is quartal harmony based on fourths rather than thirds.



          From an acoustical point of view the fourth can be considered consonant because it has a relatively 'simple' interval ratio.



          The take away is: consonance and dissonance are concepts determined largely as a matter of style. This is true of other intervals. You could consider minor sevenths and tritones as consonant in the blues as they do not require resolution and a blues audience doesn't think they sound "bad." It's a matter of style and aesthetics.



          A technical music theory aside: when dissonance is mentioned in any context, it probably is good to pair that with concepts of resolution (or similar concepts like consonance or stability.) In other words, simply saying X is dissonant only tells half the picture. It's really important to look at how consonant and stability are regained from, or interact with, dissonance. That dynamic is hugely important in how music works.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited yesterday

























          answered yesterday









          Michael CurtisMichael Curtis

          11.9k744




          11.9k744





















              9














              A perfect fourth is considered consonant when it appears as an inversion of a perfect fifth, which is itself a consonant interval. This kind of perfect fourth more or less unavoidable in any practical polyphonic arrangement, where the root is often doubled and the fifth is somewhere in between.



              A perfect fourth is considered dissonant when it appears as an interval above the root, for example in a suspended chord or a 64 chord. It is the reason why a V64-V53-I cadence must resolve; the tonic chord in 64 position is actually considered an embellishment of V with a dissonant fourth.



              There is a psychoacoustic reason for this. Intervals which first appear early in the harmonic series are consonant; intervals which first appear later are dissonant. If you examine this diagram showing the harmonics in order, you'll find that G appears rather early (third harmonic above C) while F natural is nowhere to be found.



              enter image description here



              This makes the perfect fourth both the most consonant and one of the most dissonant intervals in the series, depending on how it appears in context.






              share|improve this answer




















              • 1





                This. Context is everything. A major seventh doesn't sound great until you add the major third (and fifth and ninth) to it. A minor ninth doesn't sound good until you add the minor third and whatever else. Context!

                – John Doe
                yesterday















              9














              A perfect fourth is considered consonant when it appears as an inversion of a perfect fifth, which is itself a consonant interval. This kind of perfect fourth more or less unavoidable in any practical polyphonic arrangement, where the root is often doubled and the fifth is somewhere in between.



              A perfect fourth is considered dissonant when it appears as an interval above the root, for example in a suspended chord or a 64 chord. It is the reason why a V64-V53-I cadence must resolve; the tonic chord in 64 position is actually considered an embellishment of V with a dissonant fourth.



              There is a psychoacoustic reason for this. Intervals which first appear early in the harmonic series are consonant; intervals which first appear later are dissonant. If you examine this diagram showing the harmonics in order, you'll find that G appears rather early (third harmonic above C) while F natural is nowhere to be found.



              enter image description here



              This makes the perfect fourth both the most consonant and one of the most dissonant intervals in the series, depending on how it appears in context.






              share|improve this answer




















              • 1





                This. Context is everything. A major seventh doesn't sound great until you add the major third (and fifth and ninth) to it. A minor ninth doesn't sound good until you add the minor third and whatever else. Context!

                – John Doe
                yesterday













              9












              9








              9







              A perfect fourth is considered consonant when it appears as an inversion of a perfect fifth, which is itself a consonant interval. This kind of perfect fourth more or less unavoidable in any practical polyphonic arrangement, where the root is often doubled and the fifth is somewhere in between.



              A perfect fourth is considered dissonant when it appears as an interval above the root, for example in a suspended chord or a 64 chord. It is the reason why a V64-V53-I cadence must resolve; the tonic chord in 64 position is actually considered an embellishment of V with a dissonant fourth.



              There is a psychoacoustic reason for this. Intervals which first appear early in the harmonic series are consonant; intervals which first appear later are dissonant. If you examine this diagram showing the harmonics in order, you'll find that G appears rather early (third harmonic above C) while F natural is nowhere to be found.



              enter image description here



              This makes the perfect fourth both the most consonant and one of the most dissonant intervals in the series, depending on how it appears in context.






              share|improve this answer















              A perfect fourth is considered consonant when it appears as an inversion of a perfect fifth, which is itself a consonant interval. This kind of perfect fourth more or less unavoidable in any practical polyphonic arrangement, where the root is often doubled and the fifth is somewhere in between.



              A perfect fourth is considered dissonant when it appears as an interval above the root, for example in a suspended chord or a 64 chord. It is the reason why a V64-V53-I cadence must resolve; the tonic chord in 64 position is actually considered an embellishment of V with a dissonant fourth.



              There is a psychoacoustic reason for this. Intervals which first appear early in the harmonic series are consonant; intervals which first appear later are dissonant. If you examine this diagram showing the harmonics in order, you'll find that G appears rather early (third harmonic above C) while F natural is nowhere to be found.



              enter image description here



              This makes the perfect fourth both the most consonant and one of the most dissonant intervals in the series, depending on how it appears in context.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited yesterday

























              answered yesterday









              John WuJohn Wu

              1,47858




              1,47858







              • 1





                This. Context is everything. A major seventh doesn't sound great until you add the major third (and fifth and ninth) to it. A minor ninth doesn't sound good until you add the minor third and whatever else. Context!

                – John Doe
                yesterday












              • 1





                This. Context is everything. A major seventh doesn't sound great until you add the major third (and fifth and ninth) to it. A minor ninth doesn't sound good until you add the minor third and whatever else. Context!

                – John Doe
                yesterday







              1




              1





              This. Context is everything. A major seventh doesn't sound great until you add the major third (and fifth and ninth) to it. A minor ninth doesn't sound good until you add the minor third and whatever else. Context!

              – John Doe
              yesterday





              This. Context is everything. A major seventh doesn't sound great until you add the major third (and fifth and ninth) to it. A minor ninth doesn't sound good until you add the minor third and whatever else. Context!

              – John Doe
              yesterday











              1














              I'm guessing he's adressing how different musical traditions perceives the perfect fourth interval. In other words, historically the perfect fourth was considered dissonant, but in latter periods it has been considered a consonant interval.






              share|improve this answer























              • This is true, but mainly for the Western Music. Ancient Greece and Japan used perfect 4ths

                – Shevliaskovic
                yesterday















              1














              I'm guessing he's adressing how different musical traditions perceives the perfect fourth interval. In other words, historically the perfect fourth was considered dissonant, but in latter periods it has been considered a consonant interval.






              share|improve this answer























              • This is true, but mainly for the Western Music. Ancient Greece and Japan used perfect 4ths

                – Shevliaskovic
                yesterday













              1












              1








              1







              I'm guessing he's adressing how different musical traditions perceives the perfect fourth interval. In other words, historically the perfect fourth was considered dissonant, but in latter periods it has been considered a consonant interval.






              share|improve this answer













              I'm guessing he's adressing how different musical traditions perceives the perfect fourth interval. In other words, historically the perfect fourth was considered dissonant, but in latter periods it has been considered a consonant interval.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered yesterday









              ErikErik

              355112




              355112












              • This is true, but mainly for the Western Music. Ancient Greece and Japan used perfect 4ths

                – Shevliaskovic
                yesterday

















              • This is true, but mainly for the Western Music. Ancient Greece and Japan used perfect 4ths

                – Shevliaskovic
                yesterday
















              This is true, but mainly for the Western Music. Ancient Greece and Japan used perfect 4ths

              – Shevliaskovic
              yesterday





              This is true, but mainly for the Western Music. Ancient Greece and Japan used perfect 4ths

              – Shevliaskovic
              yesterday











              1














              In the musical context, the sense of consonance and dissonance also depends on the respective harmonical context.



              In the theory of harmony, consonant intervals are defined as at rest and not in need of resolution. On the other hand, dissonant intervals require continuation into consonance.



              The fourth counts - considered individually - to the perfect consonances. As part of a four-part major chord, it also appears consonant. eg. G-C in C-E-G-C



              If, however, it is placed in a triad as a (chord-foreign) suspended tone, it forms a dissonance: V sus7 (G-C-F)



              The fourth must therefore be resolved in the consonant third of the triad.






              share|improve this answer





























                1














                In the musical context, the sense of consonance and dissonance also depends on the respective harmonical context.



                In the theory of harmony, consonant intervals are defined as at rest and not in need of resolution. On the other hand, dissonant intervals require continuation into consonance.



                The fourth counts - considered individually - to the perfect consonances. As part of a four-part major chord, it also appears consonant. eg. G-C in C-E-G-C



                If, however, it is placed in a triad as a (chord-foreign) suspended tone, it forms a dissonance: V sus7 (G-C-F)



                The fourth must therefore be resolved in the consonant third of the triad.






                share|improve this answer



























                  1












                  1








                  1







                  In the musical context, the sense of consonance and dissonance also depends on the respective harmonical context.



                  In the theory of harmony, consonant intervals are defined as at rest and not in need of resolution. On the other hand, dissonant intervals require continuation into consonance.



                  The fourth counts - considered individually - to the perfect consonances. As part of a four-part major chord, it also appears consonant. eg. G-C in C-E-G-C



                  If, however, it is placed in a triad as a (chord-foreign) suspended tone, it forms a dissonance: V sus7 (G-C-F)



                  The fourth must therefore be resolved in the consonant third of the triad.






                  share|improve this answer















                  In the musical context, the sense of consonance and dissonance also depends on the respective harmonical context.



                  In the theory of harmony, consonant intervals are defined as at rest and not in need of resolution. On the other hand, dissonant intervals require continuation into consonance.



                  The fourth counts - considered individually - to the perfect consonances. As part of a four-part major chord, it also appears consonant. eg. G-C in C-E-G-C



                  If, however, it is placed in a triad as a (chord-foreign) suspended tone, it forms a dissonance: V sus7 (G-C-F)



                  The fourth must therefore be resolved in the consonant third of the triad.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited yesterday

























                  answered yesterday









                  Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli

                  4,6671320




                  4,6671320



























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